The main problem happens when someone considers to don't have received a
fair assessment.

I understand that the T&S must have a certain role, but I am sorry for the
T&S, the criticisms are part of this role.

Considering that every decision will be accepted unconditionally is not
suitable. To ensure a fair trial, in general two levels of evaluation are
often created with two different "courts" so those who consider themselves
to have been wrongly judged (people can make mistakes), can ask another
"independent" court to be evaluated and to confirm or to reject the first
level. Here it seems to me that T&S always considers itself on the right
side but this sense of infallibility is not the feeling that the community
has.

Apart from all what strikes me is that a person must publicly say his
sexual tendencies because he believes that he has not been judged correctly
and excused, apart from the moral lesson, this thing is very sad because
the T&S has produced an act that has committed an even more serious act.

Imagine that the part recognized in error is right, how will the T&S be
excused? Will it write a letter of public apology?

Kind regards

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 9:31 AM Philip Kopetzky <philip.kopet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Questioning is ok - we might indeed need to introduce some oversight, but
> to be honest, I doubt this would solve the trust issue as long as some
> people demand full transparency where there can never be full transparency.
>
> Speculating and accusing victims of being the actual perpetrators,
> believing the perpetrators more than the victims, perpetrators depicting
> themselves as the victims, is a sad default behaviour in our community.
> This needs to change. Seriously.
>
> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 08:17, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> wrote:
>
> > How can we BE safe in the movement if we cannot question the decisions of
> > T&S? (when they appear questionable and unsafe)
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l
> > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 7:57 AM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all
> >
> > First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know that I
> > personnally find that the actions of  Trust& Safety  very valuable and
> > wise. I totally support and trust their judgement.
> >
> > I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate official
> > chapter representants and employees publicly supporting alleged
> offenders,
> > showing no aknowledgement of the fact that this is very toxic for alleged
> > victims, and does not help to change attitude towards issues of
> > harrassment.
> >
> > How can we feel safe in the movement if the decisions of T&S are
> > questionned by official members of our movement?
> >
> > Nattes à chat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Le 21 juin 2019 à 01:04, Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com> a
> > écrit :
> >
> > >>
> > >> It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the
> Wikimedia
> > >> movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting
> > someone
> > >> who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had
> > to
> > >> intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was
> > affected
> > >> by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you when
> > you
> > >> grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> > >> feelings of others."
> > >>
> > >> If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
> > >> Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect
> on
> > >> this thread.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon the
> > > energy to write.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
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-- 
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario>
Skype: valdelli
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch
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