False accusation with the respective punishment, that is. If it was just a false accusation I would not care that much about it, though I obviously dislike being falsely accused.
Paulo A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 15:01, Paulo Santos Perneta < paulospern...@gmail.com> escreveu: > Hi Robert, > > I believe you will only keep that opinion until the day you would be > subject to a false accusation by the WMF, without even knowing it, and > having no way to defend yourself appeal. > > Everything is easy to talk about and have opinions while it is only > happening to the others. Unfortunately it is not my case, and I know in > first person how flawed the system is. > > Apart from the details of the case described by the OP, the almost total > lack of due process is extremely worrying, especially to those who already > experimented it failing in first hand. > > Best, > Paulo > > > > A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 14:43, Robert Fernandez < > wikigamal...@gmail.com> escreveu: > >> At some point we have to decide who this movement and community is >> for. Is it for popular individuals to act out in any way they please >> and be awarded maximum freedom and lack of accountability? Or is it >> so we can insure a friendly space for everyone, including those who >> are not popular, who are not loud voices on community forums, who do >> not want to be harassed or leered at or made uncomfortable? >> >> Everything is a tradeoff, and based on what I've seen I'll take the >> lack of "due process" from trained and responsible professionals over >> the popularity contests of the mob any day. >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 4:56 AM Paulo Santos Perneta >> <paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Taking everything and their dog as "harassment", without due process to >> > verify it, and issuing punishments one can't appeal based on that, >> creates >> > a feeling of fear and insecurity in the events; and provides a tool >> easy to >> > abuse by clever persons who understood how to game the system, as a >> vehicle >> > for severe harassment itself. >> > >> > This creates an unsafe and unfriendly space in the events,and should >> really >> > be looked at. >> > >> > Best, >> > Paulo >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 06:57, Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < >> > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> escreveu: >> > >> > > First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know >> that I >> > > personnally find that the actions of Trust& Safety very valuable and >> > > wise. I totally support and trust their judgement. >> > > >> > > I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate >> official >> > > chapter representants and employees publicly supporting alleged >> offenders, >> > > showing no aknowledgement of the fact that this is very toxic for >> alleged >> > > victims, and does not help to change attitude towards issues of >> > > harrassment. >> > > >> > > How can we feel safe in the movement if the decisions of T&S are >> > > questionned by official members of our movement? >> > > >> > > Nattes à chat >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Le 21 juin 2019 à 01:04, Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com> a >> > > écrit : >> > > >> > > >> >> > > >> It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the >> Wikimedia >> > > >> movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting >> > > someone >> > > >> who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they >> had >> > > to >> > > >> intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was >> > > affected >> > > >> by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you >> when >> > > you >> > > >> grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the >> > > >> feelings of others." >> > > >> >> > > >> If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why >> > > >> Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just >> reflect on >> > > >> this thread. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon >> the >> > > > energy to write. >> > > > >> > > > Chris >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
