On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 11:53, Philip Kopetzky <philip.kopet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure that that licensing recommendation is still
> work-in-progress and the legal implications haven't been analysed yet.

Huh. Nobody has mentioned legal implications. Not sure there are any
that would be especially different to the challenges that Commons
volunteers handle every day with the current available licenses.

> I guess that assuming good faith is not your strong suit, Fae? Be part of
> the solution, for once.

Maybe you can focus on the points being raised, like how a case book
would actually help make a case for change, rather than hostile
character assassination against folks writing to this list? That would
be super, and show that you are also part of a "solution", though in
this case an actual verifiable "problem" has yet to be identified that
this particular recommendation might fix.

Thanks,
Fae

> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 11:25, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree that the official announcement on Commons is worse than
> > unfortunate.
> >
> > The announcement by the Diversity Working Group on a sub-page of the
> > VP of their recommendation to permit NC and ND license restrictions on
> > Commons, comes after no attempt in advance to discuss the
> > recommendation or its wording with Wikimedia Commons community *on
> > Commons*. It is not helped by the poster being a volunteer with barely
> > any activity on Commons, so not the best person to discuss the future
> > of Commons with.
> > Link:
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons%3AVillage_pump%2FCopyright&type=revision&diff=361624891&oldid=361607626
> >
> > The justifications for the change read as unsourced and arbitrary. In
> > particular there is no evidence that using Commons to host NC ND
> > material that may be important to minority communities, such as
> > traditional folk art, would help better to educate the public about
> > those arts when the same NC restriction would halt in its
> > tracks the general use of Commons by educators and universities. The
> > change in commons policies would have the consequence of advice to
> > educators being against using our media in lectures, study materials,
> > academic papers, academic books etc.
> >
> > The Meta page that is linked to verges on being blatantly hostile to
> > the views of the Wikimedia Commons communities
> > * Q4a. Could this Recommendation have a negative impact/change?
> > * (Answer) All change has negative connotations to some members of the
> > community.
> > This appears deliberately flippant and provocative. Bizarre.
> >
> > If the WMF sponsored recommendation is hostile up front, I do not see
> > much point in the community discussing the change, it may as well just
> > be mass voted down. Discussion when the team recommending the strategy
> > is openly hostile to "some members of the community" on its own
> > recommendations page, will only lead to more polarization of the WMF
> > versus everyone else type.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > --
> > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 02:11, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > (Response apparently wasn't sent to list previously.)
> > >
> > > Yes, I think there ought to be a place to discuss the whole thing, as
> > > several share a fatal flaw in that they advocate dictating to local
> > > communities from above.
> > >
> > > Is this getting announced anywhere other than on the mailing list? There
> > is
> > > a proposal in these to literally undermine Wikipedia's free content
> > mission
> > > by allowing nonfree licenses. (
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Diversity/Recommendations/9
> > )
> > > Do you think, maybe, we shouldn't attempt to slip that through unnoticed
> > > and uncommented?
> > >
> > > For example, here's the notice that was left on Commons:
> > >
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons%3AVillage_pump&type=revision&diff=360549650&oldid=360506118
> > > .
> > > It's totally anodyne, and gives absolutely no indication that such
> > massive
> > > changes, which would entirely strip the communities of autonomy, are
> > > proposed there. For example, I suspect Commons might be just a bit
> > > interested to know these proposals would force them to accept nonfree
> > > content. If this is in any way an honest process, make sure the
> > > announcements indicate how breathtakingly broad and destructive these
> > > proposals are.
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > > On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 7:35 AM Isaac Olatunde <reachout2is...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I believe there are related discussion pages, Todd. Do you think there
> > > > should have been separate pages for discussion aside the talk pages?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Isaac.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:29 PM Szymon Grabarczuk <
> > tar.locesil...@gmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> How about talk pages?
> > > >>
> > > >> Z poważaniem / Kind regards
> > > >>
> > > >> *Szymon Grabarczuk*
> > > >> userpage: pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Tar_Lócesilion
> > <http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Tar_L%C3%B3cesilion>
> > > >> <http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Tar_L%C3%B3cesilion>
> > > >> <http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Tar_L%C3%B3cesilion>
> > > >>
> > > >> ᐧ
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 at 14:28, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > There does not seem to be anywhere to comment on these, which there
> > > >> should
> > > >> > be. I saw at least one which is highly objectionable and which I
> > would
> > > >> like
> > > >> > to object to.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Todd
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 12:37 PM Nicole Ebber <
> > nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de
> > > >> >
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Dear fellow Wikimedians,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > They’re here! [1] We are delighted to announce the first round of
> > > >> > > draft recommendations for structural change within our movement
> > have
> > > >> > > been published. The recommendations have been developed by the
> > nine
> > > >> > > Wikimedia 2030 working groups and are a key tool to help us build
> > the
> > > >> > > future of our movement.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Working group members have been working tirelessly for a year to
> > > >> > > research the movement, analyze community input shared via
> > community
> > > >> > > conversations, and gain insight into external trends. A huge
> > thank you
> > > >> > > to each and every member for helping us reach this key milestone.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > The draft recommendations are a first look at ways we can adapt
> > our
> > > >> > > movement’s structures to help us advance in our strategic
> > direction.
> > > >> > > They are the starting point for conversations about what kind of
> > > >> > > future we want to create together.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > The recommendations are not final. In order to get them to that
> > stage,
> > > >> > > your input is needed! We would like to hear from you all what
> > these
> > > >> > > changes would mean for you in your local or thematic context,
> > what do
> > > >> > > you like about them, and where you potentially see any red flags.
> > And
> > > >> > > of course, always critically question whether these
> > recommendations
> > > >> > > support the strategic direction.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > There are a few ways to do this:
> > > >> > > * Read through the recommendations online and provide your input
> > > >> > > directly on Meta. [2]
> > > >> > > * If you will be at Wikimania, join us in the Wikimedia 2030
> > space.
> > > >> [3]
> > > >> > > * Attend a Strategy Salon hosted by an affiliate where you live.
> > [4]
> > > >> > > * Reach out to a Strategy Liaison in your language to share
> > feedback,
> > > >> > > or lead a conversation of your own. [5]
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Over the next month, working groups will take the input they
> > receive
> > > >> > > into the recommendations, alongside external advice and research,
> > and
> > > >> > > use it to refine and finalize them. Share your views, and help
> > shape
> > > >> > > what Wikimedia will look like in 2030 and beyond.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > If you have any questions or feedback, please feel free to get in
> > > >> touch.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Best wishes,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Nicole
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > [1]
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> > > >> > > [2]
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> > > >> > > [3] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Wikimedia_2030
> > > >> > > [4]
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Strategy_Salons
> > > >> > > [5]
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/People/Community_Strategy_Liaisons
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > Nicole Ebber
> > > >> > > Adviser International Relations
> > > >> > > Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy
> > > >> > > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963
> > Berlin
> > > >> > > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > > >> > > https://wikimedia.de
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der
> > > >> > > Menschheit teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns
> > > >> > > dabei! https://spenden.wikimedia.de
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > e.
> > > >> > > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> > > >> > > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
> > > >> > > anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
> > > >> > > Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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--
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