I agree that an RFC would be a reasonable way forward. 



> On Sep 6, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If the WMF is going to make statements that are not derived from all
> the demonstrable facts, perhaps the community should now respond with
> a completely unambiguous RFC on meta so there can be no doubt?
> 
> Something along the lines of:
> "The WMF have employed Wolff Olins for rebranding advice, and they
> recommend that Wikimedia rebrands itself around the word "Wikipedia"
> and projects like Wikimedia Commons are renamed to "Wikicommons" to
> ensure marketing of the projects can easily be delivered by the WMF.
> Do you support or oppose this rebranding programme?"
> 
> With a straightforward RFC to keep on linking to in every discussion
> on every venue, we might then have tangible evidence of whether "There
> is considerable support for the branding proposal" or "There is
> considerable opposition for the branding proposal" is factual. Rather
> than drifting along for months with the debate and unhappiness that
> comes from arguing both sides of a mostly political case without
> firmly verifiable evidence available or relying on complex and less
> credible stats from surveys that are likely to suffer from embedded
> bias, especially considering the already banked investment in
> consultancy that drives the need to change something, to prove the
> spent money had impact and "value".
> 
> P.S. Zack and others, it's best to avoid the word "collaboration" when
> communicating with an international group. It has unfortunate history
> and gives the impression that you are quoting views from collaborators
> rather than holding open collegial discussion.
> 
> Thanks,
> Fae
> 
> On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 17:19, Diane Ranville <dranville-...@wikimedia.org> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I agree with Pine.
>> There is a majority of people who actually oppose the rebranding
>> proposition.
>> I don't quite understand why this is still going forward (except that it is
>> difficult to acknowledge a mistake and take steps backwards - but it is
>> sometimes necessary).
>> Have other options even been considered?
>> 
>> -speaking in my own name here-
>> 
>> Diane
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:35 AM Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Zack,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for the report on Meta.
>>> 
>>> I am troubled by your statement in this email that "There is considerable
>>> support for the brand proposal and general appetite to improve our
>>> movement’s branding system." What that statement appears to omit is that,
>>> according to the report on Meta, there is also considerable opposition to
>>> the rebranding proposal.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can you explain why you characterized the proposal as having "considerable
>>> support" without in the same sentence acknowledging what appears to be
>>> considerable opposition?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Of the three top-level metrics that the report on Meta displays that
>>> measure community and affiliate support or opposition regarding the
>>> rebranding proposal, one of the three metrics is in favor and two of the
>>> three metrics are opposed. If this was an RfC, and I was using those
>>> measures of sentiment to evaluate support and opposition regarding the RfC,
>>> I would probably close the current rebranding proposal as declined.
>>> 
>>> Pine
>>> 
>>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 20:49 Zack McCune <zmcc...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> *Summary* - We want your help with a voluntary, OPT-IN design process for
>>>> movement branding.  Please join the in-depth discussion group, or watch
>>> for
>>>> updates on Meta-Wiki.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> 
>>>> After 4 months of community consultation, spanning dozens of affiliates,
>>>> several mailing lists, community conferences, and Meta-Wiki, I am pleased
>>>> to share a summary of feedback on the proposed 2030 movement brand
>>> strategy
>>>> [1].
>>>> 
>>>> From more than 319 comments, representing 150 individual contributors and
>>>> 63 affiliates, we assessed 6 major themes in feedback:
>>>> 
>>>>   1.
>>>> 
>>>>   Reducing confusion
>>>>   2.
>>>> 
>>>>   Protecting reputation
>>>>   3.
>>>> 
>>>>   Supporting sister projects
>>>>   4.
>>>> 
>>>>   Addressing (legal, governmental) risks
>>>>   5.
>>>> 
>>>>   Supporting movement growth
>>>>   6.
>>>> 
>>>>   The process of change
>>>> 
>>>> Please visit our feedback summary page to learn more [2]. You will see
>>>> examples of comments within each section, along with a rough indication
>>> of
>>>> how many of the comments that we received were related to each theme.
>>>> 
>>>> The comments sometimes contradict one another, showing that across our
>>> wide
>>>> movement’s experience, different points of view are common (and a sign of
>>>> health!). To visualize these tensions, we have created “polarity maps”
>>>> which are used to help visualize how different arguments coexist in
>>> tension
>>>> with each other.
>>>> 
>>>> Ultimately, the comments provided from you all are very thoughtful and
>>>> useful guidance on what is needed to make our movement’s branding
>>>> successful. One can read the 6 themes above as “criteria” for assessing
>>>> branding systems.
>>>> 
>>>> == Thanks ==
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to thank the organizers of Iberoconf, Wikipedia Education
>>>> Summit, and the Wikimedia Summit for inviting us to hold discussions
>>> during
>>>> their sessions. I would also like to thank my colleagues Elena Lappen,
>>>> Samir Elsharbaty, and Blanca Flores who conducted extensive parts of this
>>>> consultation. To the hundreds of people, and dozens of affiliates
>>>> commenting, thank you for reviewing the proposal and offering your
>>>> perspectives and insights.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> == Next steps and staying involved ==
>>>> 
>>>> There is considerable support for the brand proposal and general appetite
>>>> to improve our movement’s branding system. Further, we believe that
>>>> critical feedback on the proposal offers direct guidance for precisely
>>> what
>>>> branding must do to be successful for our movement. We have shared these
>>>> insights and our proposed continuance with the Board of Trustees, who
>>>> approved continuing these efforts.
>>>> 
>>>> Acting on community insights, we will be collaborating on formal brand
>>>> naming, visual identity, and brand system design that will use
>>> “Wikipedia”
>>>> as the central reference point. The resulting system will be OPT-IN for
>>>> affiliates.
>>>> 
>>>> This design process will be guided by a “brand network” – a group of
>>>> volunteers who would like to continue advising on brand during this
>>>> consultation. Dozens of people have already volunteered, and we invite
>>> you
>>>> to join the group. We will use a group on Wikimedia Space to host this
>>>> discussion and the group will be closed to allow candid discussions and
>>>> room for iterations. EVERYONE IS INVITED TO JOIN [3]. If you do not want
>>> to
>>>> commit to the in-depth, longer term discussions that will be happening
>>>> within the brand network group, we will still be tracking comments left
>>> on
>>>> the project’s Meta-Wiki page [4]. Furthermore, all important ideas and
>>>> updates originating from the brand network discussion will be shared
>>>> publicly to mailing lists and Meta-Wiki.
>>>> 
>>>> The development of this proposed identity system will take approximately
>>> 6
>>>> months. As stated, regular updates will be shared to mailing lists,
>>>> Wikimedia Space, and Meta-Wiki [4]. Please engage us where you are most
>>>> comfortable! Once complete, community groups will have the power to
>>> decide
>>>> if/when they opt in to using the new system.
>>>> 
>>>> Yours,
>>>> 
>>>> Zack
>>>> 
>>>> [1]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/02/26/leading-with-wikipedia-a-brand-proposal-for-2030/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [2]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review/results
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/g/brand-network and click the gray
>>>> "Request" button. When your request is approved, you will be able to see
>>>> and access the brand network discussion category on the Discuss Space
>>> main
>>>> page.
>>>> 
>>>> [4]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> Zack McCune (he/him)
>>>> 
>>>> Director of Brand
>>>> 
>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
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> 
> -- 
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> 
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