BTW, I seem to recall that in last ASBS election, affiliates which presented something like 70% member overlap with another affiliate would not be allowed to participate in the process. If this practice is kept, it avoids gaming the system (intentionally or unintentionally) through a multiplication of affiliates which are basically cells or clones of one of them.
If this is safeguarded, cell-style affiliates probably can become a nice feature. Paulo Paulo Santos Perneta <paulospern...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 00:45: > Hey, > > "*1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly > represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary.*" > -> I can agree with that point, yes; > "*2) No matter how much some care about the ASBS, I doubt that this will > be a driving force to get more bureaucracy (because that is the cost of > setting up a UG).*" - I respect your opinion, but IMO getting to have > increased, or even decisive power on the election of 2 of the 5 members > (which in turn appoint and confirm the other 5) of the board of one of the > biggest players and stakeholders of modern days, as the Wikimedia > Foundation has been growing into progressively, is indeed a powerful driven > force. Furthermore, as far as I know, bureaucratic requirements for UGs are > really low, and in line with a department or cell would have to report to > the mother organization. I'm not saying or even suggesting this was the > driven force behind the formation of the SPUG, I certainly assume good > faith. I'm saying that it may be a driven force for similar cases presented > as local affiliates more or less explicitly under the umbrella of a > national chapter to pop up. And this aspect can be potentially unfair, and > even amount to abuse of the system, as a trick to gather more votes; > *"3) funding for local activities is probably not really a consideration > in the case of Russia, where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) > 'complicated'.* I mentioned funding, not WMF funding necessarily. It's > perfectly understandable that a locally registered association may have, in > some contexts, more easy access to funds than a national one. I live in an > autonomous region where it is very common, so I understand it may be indeed > a legitimate reason to create and register a local affiliate. No idea if > that is the case of Saint Petersburg, but if it is, it's a smart move. > > Basically, I'm not criticizing this approval - I've no idea what is behind > the group formation, though I assume the members have the best intentions, > and it actually looks like a smart move. I'm just curious if this will > become a trend, and how will it develop. > > Best, > Paulo > > effe iets anders <effeietsand...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia sexta, > 4/10/2019 à(s) 21:39: > >> Sure, if you want to see it through that lens I guess you could argue >> such. >> However, just to put things in perspective: 1) if a group has more active >> cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe >> these >> constructs shouldn't be necessary. 2) No matter how much some care about >> the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more >> bureaucracy >> (because that is the cost of setting up a UG). 3) funding for local >> activities is probably not really a consideration in the case of Russia, >> where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) 'complicated'. >> >> Lets assume for the sake of the discussion that the group has legitimate >> reasons to request affiliate status (although I have my assumptions, I'm >> curious what tipped the scale). >> >> Lodewijk >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 3:01 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < >> paulospern...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > This is a very interesting strategy for any well developed affiliate. It >> > allows : >> > >> > * decentralization, and stronger local groups, now as full fledged >> > affiliates >> > * more seats in Berlin and other conferences >> > * more votes in the ASBS election >> > * less financial burden over the national chapter, and additional >> funding >> > for local activities. >> > >> > Huge and well established chapters like WMDE could easily set up dozens >> of >> > local affiliates, with great advantage. >> > >> > Paulo >> > >> > >> > >> > A sexta, 4 de out de 2019, 08:04, Philip Kopetzky < >> > philip.kopet...@gmail.com> >> > escreveu: >> > >> > > I can only reiterate what Lodewijk said - I'm trying to find the >> approach >> > > and goals in the decision to acknowledge user groups that seem to be >> an >> > > integral part (or from an outside perspective, should be) of the >> national >> > > chapter. In the past this has been an indicator of personal conflicts >> > > within a chapter or user group and AffCom perpetuating these >> conflicts by >> > > setting up competing affiliates (the situation in Albania being a >> recent >> > > example of this). >> > > >> > > Best, >> > > Philip >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 06:33, effe iets anders < >> effeietsand...@gmail.com> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is >> > > > Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming >> > > > comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with >> > > > Wikimedia Russia. >> > > > >> > > > The question about process is still an interesting one though (what >> is >> > > > nowadays the approach of Affcom, and what are the considerations) >> when >> > a >> > > > user group application comes in from a geographic area with an >> active >> > > > affiliate at a 'higher level' (in this case, a country). You could >> > > continue >> > > > the comparison with what happens if an application would come in >> from >> > > South >> > > > of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg). >> > > > >> > > > Lodewijk >> > > > >> > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < >> > > > paulospern...@gmail.com> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a >> national >> > > > > chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. >> > > > > Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell, >> but >> > > the >> > > > > way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, >> with >> > > same >> > > > > Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell. >> > > > > >> > > > > Paulo >> > > > > >> > > > > Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia quinta, >> > > > 3/10/2019 >> > > > > à(s) 23:06: >> > > > > >> > > > > > What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational >> > > status) >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < >> > > > > > paulospern...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I >> don't >> > > > > believe >> > > > > > > it compares with a city UG. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Paulo >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> escreveu no dia >> quinta, >> > > > > > 3/10/2019 >> > > > > > > à(s) 22:53: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta >> > > > > > > > <paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if >> apparently >> > > it's >> > > > > > > > basically >> > > > > > > > > a cell of Wikimedia Russia? >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It's a curious precedent. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia >> > > > Community >> > > > > > > > User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK). >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -- >> > > > > > > > Andy Mabbett >> > > > > > > > @pigsonthewing >> > > > > > > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> and >> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: >> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > > > > > > 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