Kul,

Would you please send a few or more paragraph description of the
accomplishments and costs of the Wikipedia Zero program to the
wikimedia-l list?

I also would love to see it back. The concerns about zero rating
service abuse are real, but they did not apply to WZ no matter how
many people implied they did at the time.

Best regards,
Jim

On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 4:13 AM Peter Southwood
<peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
> Gerhard,
> I am also interested in what the impact of Wikipedia Zero was, but it is not 
> obvious to me how it would be measured.
> The board members are unlikely to have personally researched this, but might 
> know if there is or was a project and if so what they are or were trying to 
> measure. Equally, someone from WMF might be able to report on what has been 
> or is being done in this regard. It is also possible that nothing has been 
> done, or someone who does not read this list is working on it.
> If anyone reads this and can enlighten us, either to whether it is an ongoing 
> project, has been done and the information is available somewhere, or nobody 
> is known to be working on it, please let us know.
> Anyone who has ideas on how it could be measured or why it can't is also 
> welcome to comment.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: 01 December 2019 08:19
> To: Lodewijk Gelauf; Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research 
> about the effects of its demise?
>
> Lodewijk,
> What I asked for is: do we understand what the impact was of the Wikipedia
> Zero project. In the answer of James, a board member of the WMF someone who
> could know, there is nothing that answers that question. All the answer
> does is deflect the question to something else. A notion that it is "not
> that bad because we have these other things". These things we had before
> Wikipedia Zero, they are not Wikipedia and they do not scale.
>
> What I have noticed is that once consensus has been reached, we do not want
> to be confronted with the consequences of our actions. Wikipedia Zero has
> damaged our outreach and what the BBC info reminds us of is that Internet,
> the cost of Internet, is not comparable in Africa with what we are used to.
> It means that we no longer reach the girls and boys in Soweto as we showed
> in our film clip at the Erasmus award.
>
> We do not cover Africa properly, we do not need to seek consensus about
> this, that is easily to be shown. Our focus on outreach is in America, then
> Europe, then the rest of the world and there is Africa. From the moment we
> stopped Wikipedia Zero, we have invested heavily in infrastructure in
> Africa, the organisational presence in the USA is now such that it rivals
> Wikimania and is used as an excuse by some to even dismantle Wikimania. As
> an organisation, a movement the "centre periphery" model is alive and well.
> We happily embrace Burke's peerage in Wikidata and we balk at the fact that
> covering science takes resources away from pet projects.
>
> You tell me to be constructive and here I lay out what the situation is.
> How can you be constructive as our movement does not support science, the
> people who need our information most are disenfranchised because we do not
> cover them, support them in an equal manner.
> Thanks,
>
>
> On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 at 04:31, effe iets anders <effeietsand...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Gerard,
> >
> > It would be great if you could keep a slightly more constructive tone in
> > your messages. On one hand, you seem genuinely interested to help access to
> > free knowledge in Africa, but in your second email, you seem to jump (after
> > one response) to conclusions already. If you like to get real responses to
> > your emails, you may want to try a more constructive attitude. For me, it
> > is at least sufficiently offputting to disengage (I removed the rest of my
> > response/suggestions).
> >
> > -- Lodewijk
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:34 PM Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > Kiwix and off line Wikipedia did exist at the start of Wikipedia Zero.
> > It
> > > is great that you brought some to Africa but you do not scale and it is
> > not
> > > a study into the effects of what the effects are of terminating Wikipedia
> > > Zero.
> >
> >
> > > No idea what "Starlink"  is
> >
> >
> > https://lmgtfy.com/?q=starlink&s=l
> >
> >
> > > but it is not a reality for a few more years..
> > > It sounds like we have thrown all these kids under the bus but hey, we
> > have
> > > plan. A plan/action is having our own caches in Africa and providing edit
> > > and read capabilities for all who care to use it... and then measure the
> > > extend it helps us recover from our Wikipedia Zero public.
> > > Thanks,
> > >        GerardM
> > >
> > > On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 at 02:48, James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > We have offline Wikipedia. I have shipped devices to Kinshasa, and
> > > > they arrived :-)
> > > >
> > > > Of course they do not at all address the need for two way
> > communication.
> > > >
> > > > I am hoping Starlink will help when it comes online in a few years.
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 12:19 AM Gerard Meijssen
> > > > <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > The BBC shows how dramatically expensive internet is in Africa.. For
> > in
> > > > my
> > > > > opinion local political reasons Wikipedia Zero has terminated. That
> > is
> > > ok
> > > > > up to a point; the point being that we understand the consequences
> > from
> > > > > this action.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given that our data is NOT local, people have to pay a premium. What
> > > are
> > > > we
> > > > > going to do to compensate for expensive Wikipedia that replaced
> > > Wikipedia
> > > > > Zero? Did we study the effects or are we not interested in the
> > > > consequences
> > > > > of our actions?
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >        GerardM
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-50516888
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > James Heilman
> > > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > >
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