This conversation has very quickly veered away from the original topic and
what the scope of this list is.

Seddon

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:58 PM Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> yes, when the categories termed Race, when the discussion is about
> enforcing Race as a concept.
>
> The traits you speak of;
>
> >  hair color, aspects of bone structure, or susceptibility to certain
> > diseases are heritable characteristics of certain
>
> human populations?
>
>
> Are attributes of DNA and genetics... defining them by population locations
> is race its used to imply superiority of one person over another.   The
> term Fae has raised are not terms related to the science of DNA and
> genetics, these are terms use to justify atrocities and exclude people....
>
>
> On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 21:49, Dennis During <dcdur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Are you actually saying that it is promoting biological racism to mention
> > the fact that, say, skin color, hair color, aspects of bone structure, or
> > susceptibility to certain diseases are heritable characteristics of
> certain
> > human populations?
> >
> > Is this some kind of practical joke you are trying to play on us?
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 9:42 AM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > What, you are really using a Wikimedia funded email list to promote
> > > biological racism? That's ... not acceptable behaviour.
> > >
> > > Go read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism.
> > >
> > > Fae
> > >
> > > On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 14:37, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Feel free to explain how the appearance of race differences is not
> > > defined
> > > > by genetics. I have absolutely no problem accepting that people are
> > > > different, and that some people may even be better adapted to
> > > > the environment than me. ;)
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:32 PM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > No, we do not call other Wikipedians "Negroid" because of their
> > > > > appearance meeting a racist theory published in the 1930s.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or were you trying to say something else, other than defending
> > > > > "scientific racism" on this public list?
> > > > >
> > > > > Fae
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 14:25, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not sure it is wise to try to refute differences between
> > humans,
> > > > > > whether we call it race or something else, it is simply too easy
> to
> > > point
> > > > > > out the differences. We should rather promote that differences
> are
> > a
> > > > > > GoodThing™
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Humans do exhibit racial differences, but those differences
> should
> > > not be
> > > > > > used as an excuse for abusing other people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm a pink Norwegian, and I would probably die in the Kalahari
> > > desert,
> > > > > > unless rescued by someone from the San people. They are so darn
> > cool!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:57 PM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is remarkably easy to find various language Wikipedia
> articles
> > > that
> > > > > > > actively promote scientific racism. The forthcoming WMF
> universal
> > > code
> > > > > > > of conduct is unlikely to directly address this type of
> damaging
> > > > > > > anti-educational content, or require projects to take action.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This may surprise some, but here are two examples, and if you
> > > follow
> > > > > > > the multiple language links in each, you will find many other
> > > language
> > > > > > > examples:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1] Wikipedia article in Russian about "Negroid race"
> (Негроидная
> > > > > > > раса) and associates Negroid as being defined by genetics.
> > Nowhere
> > > in
> > > > > > > the article is it explained that these are debunked racist
> > > theories.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [2] Wikipedia article in Italian about "Mongoloid"
> (Mongoloide),
> > > > > > > defines being Mongoloid by physical characteristics and
> presents
> > > it as
> > > > > > > a scientific term with a section explaining how the Mogoloid
> race
> > > is
> > > > > > > geographically spread.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Unfortunately, as these outdated racist theories are Wikipedia
> > > > > > > articles, Wikimedia Commons still hosts multiple *user created*
> > > > > > > "racial maps" of the human race as if this were a current
> > > scientific
> > > > > > > race taxonomy for humans. These maps are not even required to
> > have
> > > > > > > warnings that their content is scientific racism or why that's
> a
> > > bad
> > > > > > > thing.[3]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At the current time, nobody is solving this problem with
> systemic
> > > > > > > racism and I am unaware of the WMF funding a project that will
> > take
> > > > > > > action to fix it, nor even tracking this repugnant material.
> The
> > > idea
> > > > > > > that we might still be vaguely talking about how bad it is that
> > > > > > > Wikipedia is being used to promote "Negroid race" as science in
> > > > > > > several years time, without any systematic action to get rid of
> > it
> > > or
> > > > > > > at least correctly reformat the article to describe it as
> > debunked,
> > > > > > > should alarm everyone concerned that donor's money is
> supporting
> > > this
> > > > > > > content.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Links
> > > > > > > 1.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B0
> > > > > > > 2. https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloide
> > > > > > > 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Average_East-Eurasian_ancestry_(Mongoloid).png
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Fae
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > > >
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> >
> > --
> > Dennis C. During
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> GN.
>
> *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
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-- 
Seddon

*Community and Audience Engagement Associate*
*Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
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