All cloud providers are approximately level in evil. The way we break
it down at my day job is:

* AWS: when you want it to work and want customer service
* Microsoft: when you hate yourself, you're running Windows or both
* Google: when you want zero customer service ever under any circumstances
* Ali: when you're serving in China
* Oracle: lol no, not under any circumstances are we signing up with
Oracle again for anything

My personal server is at Hetzner, which is cheaper than AWS with less
services - but that's a very bespoke box, not managed cattle in a
server farm.

tl;dr if we're going to use cloud at all rather than our own cloud,
AWS is as good as any and better technically.

- d.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 21:16, Dan Garry (Deskana) <> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 18:20, Amir Sarabadani <> wrote:
> > * I find it ethically wrong to use AWS, even if you can't host it in WMF
> > for legal reasons, why not another cloud provider.
> Which cloud provider would you recommend? Popular alternatives to AWS
> include GCP (by Google, who unscrupulously harvest user data and sell it
> for profit) and Azure (by Microsoft who arguably owe their position in the
> market due to numerous anti-competitive practices for which they have
> fought, and lost, numerous lawsuits). In addition to that, there are
> numerous other factors to consider, such as cost (we should be responsible
> with donor money), and environmental impact of the hosting choice in
> question. My point is, there is no objectively correct ethical choice.
> There's also numerous other factors to take into account in addition to
> ethics. There are different feature sets that each cloud provider offers;
> as an example, I recently did a competitive analysis of different
> cloud-hosted container registry providers, and was surprised at the large
> number of feature differences in each provider, even for something as
> relatively straightforward as a container registry, even between ECR and
> GKE. Engineering productivity is an important factor too.
> From a project management perspective, it seems to me that the most prudent
> thing to do is to choose a solution for prototyping rather than spending an
> excessive amount of time analysing it. After all, time is money. I would be
> concerned by the choice of AWS if this were in any way a permanent choice,
> but the docs specifically mention that AWS is being used for ease of
> prototyping, and that the long-term solution is presently undetermined.
> Dan
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