Apart from the usual suspects [ a. I think whether a certain emoji is religious is not a grave problem; b. civil society orgs survive on donations and fundraising is important; c. as a movement we can't probably ever have everyone agreeing on everything but pushing fundraising messages that brings some decent buck cannot be stopped -- after all, the same buck is used for maintaining servers or fighting oppressive regimes that pose a threat to open knowledge ] a few things really need to be thought through while designing fundraising messages:
- How does the message look on a low-end smartphone used by someone who lives in a place where data is expensive (say Vanuatu or a small island economy)? Can the real goal of the movement -- furthering open knowledge -- be seriously hampered by displaying too much text/image in the fundraiser? - Can the opt out message be displayed more clearly so that a user can clearly see it and turn off. It has often been a real pain for me to turn off the ads while trying to check something on Wikipedia when I am not logged in and I'm on a private tab/using VPN. - From an accessibility PoV a user should be able to identify that the ad is different from the content. It's otherwise a pesky way to fool a user who might at times confuse a fundraising ad as Wikipedia content. Probably a different background color or a distinguishable border or a clear sign would help. Subhashish On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 10:34 PM Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > Hey Michel, > > There are some other points that Fae raised particularly around user > experience and technical implementation that are distinctly more complex > tasks and we are going to need to discuss and plan our testing to work on > them, and the team is at very limited capacity on a Saturday. (I myself had > been out enjoying the rather brisk winter air that's visiting the UK). Due > to their very nature, rolling back the emoji's in the messaging could be > done immediately. > > I've already brought the feedback back to the team, and I'll be reviewing > with the team on Monday and hopefully work on them this week. > > Seddon > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 4:36 PM Michel Vuijlsteke <wikipe...@zog.org> > wrote: > >> I don't quite think the emoji were the only thing people hated >> about this. >> >> On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 17:09, Joseph Seddon <jsed...@wikimedia.org> wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> To avoid burying the lead, the feedback is appreciated and we do listen >>> whenever feedback is raised. I've just been coordinating with the team, and >>> we've rolled back this change. >>> >>> For some background, the emojis in this messaging were a recent addition >>> earlier this week. Emojis have become a core part of the way the world >>> communicates, especially with younger demographics, practically becoming an >>> ideographic language in and of itself. The team has been keen to see if >>> there are ways we can leverage this, especially on mobile and we’ve been >>> experimenting with them over the last couple of years in a number of >>> campaigns. >>> >>> I want to recognise that we missed the mark on this one and that your >>> feedback is heard, much appreciated and acted upon. The team really does >>> care about the messaging and how it represents us, and the projects as a >>> whole. Our processes on approving content have massively improved over the >>> years and I think it reflects in the messaging we use. A number of people >>> have noted that it has improved for the better over the years. >>> >>> At the same time I want to take some ownership of this misstep myself. >>> I've been proactively working in real time with some volunteers, discussing >>> concepts and gathering feedback on campaigns. This feedback has definitely >>> shown that for such a new concept, I should have made sure to have >>> highlighted and gotten more input on this. >>> >>> I'll be gathering input on how we use emojis in our messaging and I'd be >>> happy to follow up with people about this. Just an additional note that if >>> anyone wants to talk through any feedback with me I can be found on IRC, >>> Discord, Telegram or send it through via email ( seddon at wikimedia.org >>> ). >>> >>> My apologies but also my genuine thanks for the feedback. >>> >>> Seddon >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 2:24 PM Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> tend to agree there should be a mobile friendly version, the article >>>> should be visible at the same time. What wording is used it definitely >>>> should not have religious actions or symbology in it... the other emojis do >>>> seem childish >>>> >>>> On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 21:58, Chris Gates via Wikimedia-l < >>>> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I opened a browser I’m not logged in on to see what these ads were. >>>>> >>>>> Here is the text, unedited, of the second ad I was shown (after >>>>> closing the first): >>>>> >>>>> “Hi reader 🙂. Sorry for the interruption, but this Saturday Wikipedia >>>>> really needs your help. This is the 3rd appeal we've shown you. 98% >>>>> of our readers don't give; they look the other way 😢. All we ask is >>>>> $2.75 and then you can get back to your article. We ask you, humbly: >>>>> please don't scroll away 🙏🙏.“ >>>>> >>>>> It would be quite helpful if the WMF’s marketing and >>>>> fundraising-focused teams weren’t so intent on destroying Wikipedia’s >>>>> reputation. I, and I’m sure most editors, don’t care that praying and >>>>> crying emojis illicit more money. There are social and reputation costs to >>>>> portraying Wikipedia like a crying, praying beggar about to go broke. And >>>>> though I understand the employees responsible for pushing this nonsense in >>>>> front of every reader evidently do not care about the costs of their >>>>> actions, and only whatever money they can get from it, it remains wholly >>>>> unacceptable. >>>>> >>>>> Tell me: why should I volunteer to work on a project whose owners, >>>>> regardless of the incredibly large quantities of money they already have, >>>>> seek frequently to illicit donations through methods that damage >>>>> Wikipedia’s reputation? Why would I give hours of my time a week to make >>>>> Wikimedia projects clear of vandalism and abuse, seeking to give readers >>>>> the impression of a functional and reliable source of information, knowing >>>>> that some marketing person could undo all of the volunteers’ work through >>>>> some ad campaign? >>>>> >>>>> And yes, I also understand that volunteers complain every time this >>>>> happens. There’s very good reason to do so, as every time these campaigns >>>>> go out they are worse than the last, wholly ignorant of community wishes, >>>>> and taking no views into account other than those who reflect purely a >>>>> goal >>>>> of getting more donations. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Vermont >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 05:22 Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Let's try kicking this perennial thead again. >>>>>> >>>>>> This morning (5 Dec 2020) I paused cooling my porridge when looking up >>>>>> how Wikipedia describes 'Latinx' usage on my cellular, I was faced >>>>>> with a *2 page* advert. >>>>>> * The advert meant nothing of the article could be seen, not even the >>>>>> title, without having to pass the two pages of several big blue >>>>>> fundraising notices. >>>>>> * There's some statements in those notices that, frankly, look >>>>>> unencyclopaedic like "People told us we'd regret making Wikipedia a >>>>>> non-profit". That's a literally untrue Trumpian political sentence if >>>>>> ever I saw one. >>>>>> * The 2 pages close with "We ask you, humbly: don't scroll away" >>>>>> followed by a single option of a "MAYBE LATER" link (not a 'go away >>>>>> forever please' link, and yes, it's really in shouty all caps). >>>>>> >>>>>> I might have passed on thinking, gah, not again, but there is a >>>>>> further sting in this tale. After working out that there was a "No >>>>>> thanks" link back at the start in a font smaller than all the notice >>>>>> text, you are faced with a second big red fundraising notice. This one >>>>>> has a sad weeping emoji in it, because you are going to "look the >>>>>> other way". I guess the idea is to make it feel like you are >>>>>> heartlessly walking past a beggar on the street without having the >>>>>> humanity to look at them, not sure how else this is supposed to read. >>>>>> It closes with the same "humbly" sentence, but this time with two >>>>>> emojis that are begging or praying hands. Personally I find being >>>>>> prayed at slightly offensive, Wikipedia being a haven of logical >>>>>> thought, not a church, but that's probably me being too black hat. >>>>>> >>>>>> Isn't it about time the $100,000,000+ a year WMF made a design choice >>>>>> to stay classy and avoid multiple full page banners begging the public >>>>>> for money like it was about to go bust? It looks desperate because >>>>>> there's no other honest way to describe it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Stay safe, wear a mask, >>>>>> Fae >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 5 May 2020 at 12:58, WereSpielChequers >>>>>> <werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Given the large reserves that the WMF carries, and the savings from >>>>>> > cancelling events such as Wikimania 2020, I would have thought that >>>>>> the WMF >>>>>> > was one organisation that could afford to pause its fundraising for >>>>>> a few >>>>>> > months. At least in countries where the economy is in freefall. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > In a few months time lots of people will still be in a financial >>>>>> mess. But >>>>>> > the large number of people who are currently going to be worried >>>>>> about >>>>>> > their financial future will hopefully be divided into those who >>>>>> have kept >>>>>> > their jobs. or got new ones and those who were right to be worried. >>>>>> > Hopefully some of those who come through this financially OK will >>>>>> be in a >>>>>> > position to donate. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > WSC >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Tue, 5 May 2020 at 11:25, < >>>>>> wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org> >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to >>>>>> > > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >>>>>> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>>> > > wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> > > wikimedia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >>>>>> specific >>>>>> > > than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..." >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Today's Topics: >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > 1. Annoying ads (John Erling Blad) >>>>>> > > 2. Re: Annoying ads (Benjamin Ikuta) >>>>>> > > 3. Re: Annoying ads (Robert Fernandez) >>>>>> > > 4. Re: Annoying ads (Pierre-Yves Beaudouin) >>>>>> > > 5. Re: Annoying ads (Nick Wilson (Quiddity)) >>>>>> > > 6. Re: Annoying ads (Samuel Klein) >>>>>> > > 7. Re: Annoying ads (Paulo Santos Perneta) >>>>>> > > 8. Re: Annoying ads (Paulo Santos Perneta) >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> > >Cheers >>>>>> > > Message: 1 >>>>>> > > Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 16:55:50 +0200 >>>>>> > > From: John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> >>>>>> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >>>>>> > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Annoying ads >>>>>> > > Message-ID: >>>>>> > > <CAJcMX2= >>>>>> > > 5ggwunkrfg6ejjsn6sb1rbf1h_fnyphpd_wjr5ot...@mail.gmail.com> >>>>>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did >>>>>> right now. I >>>>>> > > got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in >>>>>> several >>>>>> > > locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it >>>>>> unwise. >>>>>> > > Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are >>>>>> simply way over >>>>>> > > the top. >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > /jeblad >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > ------------------------------ >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > ***************************** >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> > Unsubscribe: >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto: >>>>>> wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> GN. >>>> >>>> *Power of Diverse Collaboration* >>>> *Sharing knowledge brings people together* >>>> Wikimania Bangkok 2021 >>>> August >>>> hosted by ESEAP >>>> >>>> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra >>>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page >>>> My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Seddon >>> >>> >>> *Senior Community Relations Specialist* >>> *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > > -- > Seddon > > > *Senior Community Relations Specialist* > *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation* > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >
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