Hello, I don't believe I stated it had a remit under the law - indeed, I'm pretty confident I did not.
Almost none of our bodies have legal personae, so that would have been an odd thing for me to say, so I'm somewhat confused on why you indicate I did. But we are a project that is built on our internally agreed responsibilities and relations - which includes our remits (the BOT, to the degree that even it has a legal remit, is fairly narrow). As an example, the UCOC drafting committee has a very clear remit, but not one that's enshrined in law. p.s. Mea culpa on forgetting to change the title - didn't want to change this one *now* as I don't know if that would split the thread. Happy for someone to change to an appropriate title. *Richard (Nosebagbear)* Unless otherwise stated within this email, any Movement Charter viewpoints expressed represent my own position(s), and *not* the aggregate judgement of the MCDC. On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 at 11:57, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe, please visit > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikimedia-l.lists.wikimedia.org/ > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 348, Issue 3 (Gerard Meijssen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 12:56:51 +0100 > From: Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 348, Issue 3 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <CAO53wxVEwnU= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="00000000000056b3ac05d305c5c3" > > Hoi, > Why is it that you consider the "community" a single body that has a remit > under the law for anything? It is not and it has not. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 at 11:40, Nosebagbear <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Dear Patrick, > > > > Firstly, you (and in this case, I mean, "I notified members of T&S > policy, > > directly, in discussions where they were involved, as did others" all the > > way back in phase 1) were made aware of the community need for > ratification > > far before the ArbCom letter. > > > > Which of these is the case: that the WMF only notified the Board of a > need > > for actual community ratification when the Arbcom open letter was made, > or > > that the Board declined to consider it as a need prior to that point? > > > > Secondly, why does the Board feel that they should be "consider[ing] the > > input received so far on what would make a fair and practical process." - > > there are only two bodies with a reasonable remit to be specifying the > > nature of any ratification method. In the weaker position is the UCOC > > drafting committee, and in the first place, the Community as a whole, > > probably by a meta-RfC. Please provide the reasoning for this process. > > > > *Richard (Nosebagbear)* > > > > Unless otherwise stated within this email, any Movement Charter > viewpoints > > expressed represent my own position(s), and *not* the aggregate judgement > > of the MCDC. > > > > > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 21:13, <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe, please visit > >> > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikimedia-l.lists.wikimedia.org/ > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> [email protected] > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..." > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: Closing the comment period for the > >> Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Draft Guidelines and next step > >> (Andreas Kolbe) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 21:12:54 +0000 > >> From: Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> > >> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: Closing the comment > >> period for the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Draft > >> Guidelines > >> and next step > >> To: Patrick Earley <[email protected]> > >> Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> > >> Message-ID: > >> < > >> cahrttw9h69ewso1v3m6hzgn4emuglb0gvx9bkd+q0hi6t_f...@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > >> boundary="00000000000055427605d280b9bb" > >> > >> Hi Patrick, > >> > >> Thank you for your clarification. So if I understand correctly, there > will > >> be no UCoC policy text review before sometime in 2023. > >> > >> As this is quite a long time away, would it be possible to provide some > >> answers to the questions I asked earlier? > >> > >> > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/H4FGTRCTKKCLJXFQVWFOCHMZCOFE2KBM/ > >> > >> For example: According to the Universal Code of Conduct, are > >> Wikipedians/Wikimedians allowed – > >> > >> – To blog about what happens on Wikipedia? > >> > >> – To discuss edits traceable to, say, the Russian or US government on- > and > >> off-wiki, without the permission of the people making these edits? > >> > >> – To discuss cases of individuals engaging in revenge editing or > >> subverting > >> Wikipedia for commercial or criminal ends (recall the recent Christian > >> Rosa > >> case), or to help the press with related enquiries (recall e.g. > >> > >> > https://www.dailydot.com/irl/wikipedia-sockpuppet-investigation-largest-network-history-wiki-pr/ > >> and the input made by User:Doctree to that article)? > >> > >> – To notify the authorities when they believe a crime has been committed > >> or > >> is about to be committed? > >> > >> Or should all of these actions categorically be considered harassment of > >> fellow contributors, and the contributors engaging in these actions be > >> subject to blocks and bans? > >> > >> I think it is important for people to understand the Code's intent > >> correctly. > >> > >> Best, > >> Andreas > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 6:42 PM Patrick Earley <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Hi Andreas, > >> > > >> > The review of the policy text is planned one year after the close and > >> the > >> > ratification of the enforcement outlines, which are still being > revised > >> by > >> > the Drafting Committee. Detailed information of the policy text > review > >> > will be communicated soon, as the revised guidelines are published for > >> > comment and ratification. The review will likely follow established > >> policy > >> > update formats, such as those used for the Terms of Use. [1] > >> > > >> > Patrick > >> > > >> > [1] > >> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_use/Paid_contributions_amendment > >> > > >> > On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:10 AM Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Hi Patrick, > >> >> > >> >> Thanks. You say, > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> *The policy was ratified by the Board last February.[1] That said, a > >> >> policy must be adapted over time as it is put into practice and > >> >> complications arise. The main text of the UCoC must be adaptable, > and > >> >> there will be a full review and update of the text one year after the > >> close > >> >> and ratification of the current phase, which is looking at > enforcement > >> >> pathways.[2] We fully expect refinements at that time.* > >> >> > >> >> If the policy was ratified last February, and "there will be a full > >> >> review and update of the text one year after the close and > >> ratification", > >> >> does that mean there will be some sort of review of the policy text > in > >> >> February 2022? > >> >> > >> >> Or did you mean something else? And where will that review take > place? > >> >> > >> >> Thanking you in advance for your clarification. > >> >> > >> >> Best, > >> >> Andreas > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 6:05 PM Patrick Earley < > [email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Hello, all. > >> >>> > >> >>> In reply to these questions and a few received via direct email: > >> >>> > >> >>> Questions about the content of the Universal Code of Conduct policy > >> >>> itself are very legitimate, but unrelated to the current process > under > >> >>> review with the Board. The policy was ratified by the Board last > >> >>> February.[1] That said, a policy must be adapted over time as it is > >> put > >> >>> into practice and complications arise. The main text of the UCoC > >> must be > >> >>> adaptable, and there will be a full review and update of the text > one > >> year > >> >>> after the close and ratification of the current phase, which is > >> looking at > >> >>> enforcement pathways.[2] We fully expect refinements at that time. > >> Figuring > >> >>> out how to manage some areas of policy is challenging. Doxxing is a > >> very > >> >>> difficult area to form policy around, and I know the Drafting > >> Committee > >> >>> from Phase 1 worked hard to reflect best practices around the > >> movement in > >> >>> this area. > >> >>> > >> >>> To clarify, Nosebagbear: Youngjin was reminding folks to get their > >> last > >> >>> thoughts in for the current work the Drafting Committee is doing on > >> >>> revising the text. It wasn’t meant to imply that there will be no > >> more > >> >>> discussion on the Guidelines before a ratification process takes > >> place. The > >> >>> revisions to the draft Guidelines will be published on Meta for > >> comment and > >> >>> discussion as soon as the committee feels they have incorporated the > >> input > >> >>> received over the last few months. This message was just meant as a > >> >>> reminder to anyone who might not have been aware of the draft > review. > >> >>> > >> >>> In terms of what we’re reviewing with the Board, it is a process for > >> >>> ratification in response to a request from the global arbitration > >> >>> committees. They are not being asked to ratify the Enforcement > >> Guidelines > >> >>> at this time. As to how and when ratification of the guidelines will > >> take > >> >>> place, thoughts and opinions from the Drafting Committee, community > >> members > >> >>> and functionaries, and the Board of Trustees will inform the > details. > >> >>> We’ll communicate a full ratification plan after the Board meets in > >> >>> mid-December and considers the input received so far on what would > >> make a > >> >>> fair and practical process. > >> >>> > >> >>> Patrick > >> >>> > >> >>> [1] > >> >>> > >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg35984.html > >> >>> > >> >>> [2] > >> >>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/FAQ#Periodic_reviews > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 11:37 PM Peter Southwood < > >> >>> [email protected]> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> Fair comment. > >> >>>> P > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > >> >>>> Sent: 27 November 2021 13:04 > >> >>>> To: [email protected] > >> >>>> Subject: [Marketing Mail] [Wikimedia-l] Re: Closing the comment > >> period > >> >>>> for > >> >>>> the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement Draft Guidelines and next > >> step > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Hello, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I would make a couple of notes here: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> One is that when you say "comment period will end", that can't be > of > >> the > >> >>>> process. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> There are numerous open questions that we have yet to see any draft > >> >>>> policy > >> >>>> text on - they can't go into the final document without chance for > >> open > >> >>>> review and further revision. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> While I've heard bits about how they will be discussed, we've seen > >> >>>> nothing > >> >>>> formal and nothing in writing. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Please let me know BEFORE the 29th how that will be handled to the > >> >>>> community's expectations. As the inherently most controversial bits > >> >>>> (that's > >> >>>> why they were open questions!) the actual next needs MORE time to > >> review > >> >>>> than the aspects already there, not less. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Yours, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Nosebagbear > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], > >> >>>> guidelines at: > >> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> >>>> Public archives at > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ > >> >>>> message/GD5CSLNTF7XBCQVCEZT7CGD7XHQ2PRIQ/ > >> >>>> < > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/GD5CSLNTF7XBCQVCEZT7CGD7XHQ2PRIQ/ > >> > > >> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to > >> [email protected] > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -- > >> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > >> >>>> https://www.avg.com > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], > >> >>>> guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > >> >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> >>>> Public archives at > >> >>>> > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/SXTXR5H2SIO7YTK74GSJX66CWC2PMWFN/ > >> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to > >> [email protected] > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> Patrick Earley > >> >>> Lead Trust & Safety Policy Manager > >> >>> Wikimedia Foundation > >> >>> [email protected] > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], > >> guidelines > >> >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> >>> Public archives at > >> >>> > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/6QWLWX53QN4S3FFZG7D2WDGFKIRAHDND/ > >> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Patrick Earley > >> > Lead Trust & Safety Policy Manager > >> > Wikimedia Foundation > >> > [email protected] > >> > > >> > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ... > >> Name: not available > >> Type: text/html > >> Size: 16636 bytes > >> Desc: not available > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Subject: Digest Footer > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> Public archives at > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ > >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> End of Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 348, Issue 3 > >> ******************************************* > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > Public archives at > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/LZAI7YOYG6TLCRS7E6AZL6PWUFBNJOYZ/ > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ... > Name: not available > Type: text/html > Size: 20520 bytes > Desc: not available > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 355, Issue 1 > ******************************************* >
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