Even if you don't want mediawiki for various reasons, you can set it up in
Wikimedia Cloud. We already hosted Discourse there for years.

Even if you can't host in WMCS for other reasons, you still can have
internationalized discussions in mediawiki. The Desktop improvements team
does this in mediawiki.org (For example
and while not as great as auto-translate, it works.

Language barrier is a problem but so is privacy, there is a reason we host
everything onsite. For example, I don't know the details of how it uses
Google Translate but it is possible we end up sending some data to Google
that are either not anonymized or can be de-anonymized easily. Not to
mention the cloud provider hosting the website having access to everything
and so on. And not to mention auto-translate is not perfect and can cause
all sorts of problems in communication.


On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 12:21 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Since 2018 (!!) there's an Extension that allows translation using the
> Google Translate API (the same Discourse is using).
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Google_Translator
> You can test it here, for example:
> https://karaoke.kjams.com/wiki/System_Requirements
> It took me literally 5 minutes to figure out that this exists. So, the one
> and only feature where Discourse may be better positioned than Meta to
> discuss about Wikimedia, can also be done perfectly with this extension.
> Thanks
> Galder
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:01 PM
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum
> community review
> Let's see the "features" Discourse have and MediaWiki don't:
>    - Anyone can join with their Wikimedia account. No registration is
>    required.
>    - This is a feature we already have.
>    - Multilingual conversations are possible thanks to automatic
>    translation in more than 100 languages.
>    - How are they doing that? Discourse is open source, isn't it? Could
>    this feature be experimentally included at Meta? Are they using the Google
>    Translate API?
>    -
>    - Newcomers are welcomed with an interactive tutorial and badges for
>    achievements.
>    - This can be done in Meta. Even developing a system of easy tutorials
>    and gamification would be a great add-on for most wikis. So, if this is
>    something really important, we SHOULD be doing for ourselves, and not
>    letting MediaWiki abandonware.
>    -
>    - Notifications can be adjusted to follow or mute topics, categories,
>    and tags.
>    - This can be done with Flow.
>    - Conversations can use easy text formatting, expanded links, images,
>    and emojis.
>    - We can do this on wiki. Even the emojis thing.
>    - Complex conversations can be summarized by their participants, also
>    split or merged.
>    - We can do this on wiki. We have been doing this for ages.
>    - Posts can be flagged anonymously for moderation. Community
>    moderators ensure that the Universal Code of Conduct is observed.
>    - We can do this on wiki. Also, the Community moderators ensuring that
>    the UCoC is observed should be working on how to do that on... check
>    notes... Meta.
>    - All features are available on mobile and desktop browsers.
>    - Also on wiki. If something is missing on mobile, then, we should
>    invest all the necessary to get it. Not doing that only makes our platform
>    more obsolete.
>    -
>    - Congratulate newcomers each time they publish a post.
>    - This is a feature already available at Wiki. We can also
>    congratulate by hand if wanted.
> Is Discourse better? I don't know. Abandoning our own software because we
> have found that others are doing things better? A total error.
> I have said this before, but we have plenty of money. We are swimming in a
> giant money pool. Our software is obsolete, and every move we make away of
> it, makes it even more obsolete, despite having the money to solve it.
> Thanks
> Galder
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Quim Gil <q...@wikimedia.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 1, 2022 11:09 AM
> *To:* Mike Peel <em...@mikepeel.net>
> *Cc:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum
> community review
> Hi again,
> The proposal for a new forum comes with a problem statement
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Strategy/Forum/Proposal#Why_a_Movement_Strategy_Forum>,
> a list of main features aimed to address this problem, and a set of
> questions to help everyone find points of tangible discussion and hopefully
> agreement.
> Today, "use a wiki" or "we have Meta" alone doesn't solve the problem. The
> discrimination suffered by volunteers not fluent in English is real. The
> intimidation and alienation felt by many volunteers and many groups that
> are underrepresented in our movement or marginalized in our societies is
> real. And simply, the difficulty to have multiple simultaneous complex
> discussions in a structured and enjoyable way is very real.
> We are not claiming that this forum can solve all these problems in one
> strike. However, we firmly believe that this forum presents a better
> alternative here and now for everyone interested in the Movement Strategy
> implementation. Clearly a better alternative for those who are in practice
> excluded or gone from traditional on-wiki conversations. But also to
> everyone else (expert wiki editors included) who wants to get things done
> in a context where diversity, equity, inclusion, efficient use of time, and
> fun are naturally expected.
> Many people have responded to this problem with their feet. Wikimedia
> cross-project connections and conversations have been trending towards
> "social media" platforms for years. Today they are all scattered and still
> growing. And well, many years before social media, mailing lists like this
> one were created "off-wiki" for a reason.
> This forum proposes the creation of a platform fully functional today, to
> host the conversations and collaboration needed to implement the Movement
> Strategy. We can offer a platform as easy to use as the popular tools
> people are using daily to connect and discuss. We can offer features none
> of these commercial platforms offer today like automatic translation,
> better organization of complex conversations, better search and memory, and
> a much better alignment with the Wikimedia values. All this is available
> today, one Wikimedia login click away. For you to review.
> Keeping Meta updated including possibilities for participation is
> perfectly possible. One of the questions
> <https://forum.movement-strategy.org/t/are-there-other-channels-that-you-would-prefer-to-use-in-addition-to-or-instead-of-this-forum-for-movement-strategy-updates-and-feedback-why/54>
> of the community review asks about how the support of other channels would
> work in practice. If you appreciate Meta-Wiki as much as, say, Wikimedia
> volunteers who don't speak English, please contribute your ideas to find
> the best solutions.
> I hope this expresses our general motivation to get out of everyone's
> comfort zone (ours included) and propose this forum.
> Florence asks:
> > Will there be any notion of Single Login in the future (when/if it
> starts being hosted by WMF) ?
> Wikimedia login is in effect already now, and it's the only way to log in
> to the forum. After logging in the first time, the browser keeps the
> session for a period of time (that can be configured by the admins) so that
> people don't have to log in again every day.
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 12:36 AM Mike Peel <em...@mikepeel.net> wrote:
>  > See this pinned topic:
>  >
>  > User privacy considerations in this forum
>  >
> https://forum.movement-strategy.org/t/user-privacy-considerations-in-this-forum/55
> <
> https://forum.movement-strategy.org/t/user-privacy-considerations-in-this-forum/55
> >
> So this does not follow the WMF's privacy policy at:
> https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
> You didn't answer this.
> Sorry, I had responded with a link. This is what the link says:
> > We are still working on the Privacy Policy and the Terms of Use of the
> Movement Strategy Forum.
> > They will be completed during the community review. In the meantime, we
> provide here information
> > about privacy for users of this platform.
> Every single link under "Community review questions" goes to your new
> website.
> We are asking volunteers to review a proposed new forum. We have a forum
> that people can use to inform their reviews. Sending people to the forum
> being reviewed is only logical.
> All wiki pages have a talk page, and the proposal's talk page also
> welcomes people to contribute their feedback there too, providing a
> structure to comment on the same questions.
> --
> Quim Gil (he/him)
> Director of Movement Strategy & Governance @ Wikimedia Foundation
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil-WMF
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