> How could we say we velcome young editors and require that they conceal that 
> they are young?

We manage to do exactly that, even though we, too, can guess with some 
imperfect accuracy, that certain people are in fact children.

> I just share an idea for anybody to possibly take it or elaborate his own 
> from it!

Yeah, I doubt anyone is going to create a kids-only encyclopedia as successful 
as yours, and I think few here would be open to the idea. You’d probably have 
better success collaborating with school districts and similar organizations.

From,
I dream of horses
She/her





> On Jun 24, 2022, at 3:42 PM, Mathias Damour <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr> wrote:
> 
> Yes, Vikidia editors are allowed (not required) to tell their age on their 
> user page. In the long run (or not so long), other users would roughly guess 
> it anyway. We get to know each other online and I guess it helps the 
> communication to know the age group to which belong the people you're talking 
> with.
> How could we say we velcome young editors and require that they conceal that 
> they are young?
>  
> No, I don't want money from the WMF or somebody else, for I am no more in 
> charge of the Vikidia association, and I never planned to take in charge 
> myself the kind of project I tell about. I just share an idea for anybody to 
> possibly take it or elaborate his own from it!
>  
>  
> Envoyé: vendredi 24 juin 2022 à 23:21
> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" <idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com>
> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
> When I had a look to the most viewed articles (not exactly recently) I had 
> the impression that it actually reach one of its goal that is to be a 
> resource for non native english speaker (that moreover don't have a well 
> developped Wikipedia in their native language, such as indians of a minority 
> language). Yet it wasn't children interest or school curriculum subjects that 
> were much viewed but rather adult topics.
>  
> We could fix that by dedicating time to subjects children would learn in 
> school. We don’t need a separate wiki.
>  
> However, regular users have in mind that the age told by any user isn't 
> verified.
> One of the findings of fact in  
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children's_privacy>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children%27s_privacy
>  
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children's_privacy>
>  is that:
>  
>  
> Self-identified children may be children, adult predators, trolls 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)>(→) 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)?action=edit>, adult 
> privacy-watchers testing our policies, or law enforcement personnel. 
>  
> So they might be children, child abusers, adults lying because they think 
> it’s funny, people looking to bring down the reputation of websites that 
> don’t respect the privacy of children, or a police officer that can arrest 
> someone in real life. All of these bring up different issues as to the safety 
> of children and the reputation of the adults that want to help them. This is 
> why the arbitration committee decided this was the best option for editors 
> who might actually be children:
>  
> Users who appear to be children editing in good faith who disclose 
> identifying personal information may be appropriately counseled. Deletion and 
> oversight may be used in appropriate cases to remove the information.
>  
> In other words, kids aren’t allowed to disclose their age. Of course, people 
> editing in bad faith would be blocked, anyways. Are you saying that kids are 
> allowed to disclose age on Wikikids?
>  
> We disable the e-mail function from one's user account to another, so there 
> is no private message unless one editor would have displayed his e-mail 
> adress or on account on another social media.
> That’s going to add an obstacle to writing to oversight and the emergency 
> team that intervenes when someone threatens suicide or homicide, along with a 
> few other teams that have a “role account” that takes advantage of the “email 
> this user” feature.
>  
> I mean that if by chance someone or an organisation would want to developp a 
> free documentary resource for children and would be eager to invest in it, 
> there would be a way to do it: there is allready a base of articles in some 
> Vikidia versions like the english one and an organisation that proved to be 
> sustainable (actually very closed to the one of Wikipedia), then some funds 
> would allow to catch up the time of "organic growth" that some wiki 
> encyclopedia for children had. I guess it would be promotion, communication, 
> and possibly paid translation to get the most interesting, best quality, most 
> usefull articles from several wikis for children and from Simple English 
> Wikipedia (with some data analysis/study to identify and select them), to get 
> a core of say 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 articles in one language. It would be 
> quite a big operation, but it may be worth the investment. Getting a quality 
> free encyclopedia for children in a matter of months.
> Are you saying you want money from the WMF? Or someone affiliated with the 
> WMF?
>  
> From,
> I dream of horses
> She/her
>  
> 
>  
>  
> On Jun 24, 2022, at 2:06 PM, Mathias Damour <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr 
> <mailto:mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>> wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> I think that SEWP was created like it is, partly by fear of creating a 
> project openly directed to children, and I'm afraid it precisely make it not 
> so compelling for them.
> How is Simple English Wikipedia not compelling for kids? Define “not 
> compelling.”
> 
> Well, I didn't closely study SEWP, so I may be unfair, that's rather my 
> impressions :
> The main rule is the simple language rather than explain a subject in a 
> accessible way, so you can have long and not so accessible articles in simple 
> language.
> When I had a look to the most viewed articles (not exactly recently) I had 
> the impression that it actually reach one of its goal that is to be a 
> resource for non native english speaker (that moreover don't have a well 
> developped Wikipedia in their native language, such as indians of a minority 
> language). Yet it wasn't children interest or school curriculum subjects that 
> were much viewed but rather adult topics.
>  
> I took a look at Vikidia, thought I could do something for them, signed up 
> with an account, read what I could find of the guidance, and created an 
> article on Underwater diving, following the rules as I understood them, using 
> properly attributed CC-by-sa content from Simple English Wikipedia as a basic 
> framework, and was busy expanding it when it was deleted without discussion 
> by user Ajeje_Brazorf with the edit summary (Please don't copy from simple 
> wikipedia}, and no explanation why not. If I had done that on English 
> Wikipedia I would risk losing my admin bit. If that is how new users are 
> routinely treated there that encyclopedia is doomed. I will not be back to 
> waste my time there.
> 
> By the way, sorry for that, I guess it is not specific to Vikidia in english 
> to experiment such diagreement with newcomers, there is a discussion on this 
> wiki about what happened.
>  
> On top of that, it would seem that you were able to sign up easily without 
> verifying your age; both verifying age and not can be problematic. 
>  
> Verifying age makes things safer in terms of everyone knowing that if someone 
> says they’re a kid, they’re a kid, and if they’re an adult, they’re an adult. 
> Part of online grooming and police sting operations is people saying “I’m a 
> kid, let’s meet offline." It can be problematic due to reasons of privacy. 
> It’s not like you want everyone knowing the age of a child who’s online. That 
> can mostly but entirely alleviated by only having the administration know 
> everyones’ birthdate, and forcing admins to have strict account security.
> 
> We don't ask nor verify the editors ages on Vikidia. There is no status 
> attached to the user's age (with some few exception like check-user...), so 
> few reason to lie about our age if we tell it. However, regular users have in 
> mind that the age told by any user isn't verified. We disable the e-mail 
> function from one's user account to another, so there is no private message 
> unless one editor would have displayed his e-mail adress or on account on 
> another social media. And we suppress identifying information that a child 
> would write on his user page.
> To be complete, we noticed that the UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 
> 2006 appears to mandate some verifications for some status like admins on a 
> wiki for children (someone that would become administrator of Vikidia in 
> english if he is more than 16 and lives in the UK would have to provide his 
> identity and proof that he has passed the british vetting process). See 
> https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters#UK_Safeguarding_Vulnerable_Groups_Act_2006
>  
> <https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters#UK_Safeguarding_Vulnerable_Groups_Act_2006>
>  
> Actually, Vikidia in english does exist, with 4,035 articles !
>  
> Oh, okay, so it’s going to be mostly out of whole cloth, not entirely. I’m 
> not sure how many articles English Wikipedia has, but I know it’s in the 
> millions.
>  
> They may be a way to promote a existing (or to be launched) wiki encyclopedia 
> for children, to "use the momentum of Wikipedia to make it easier to discover”
> I believe I’ve stated more or less stated that you can’t use our momentum 
> since we need for the projects we have.
> 
> That's a constant pattern, your favorite wiki may have 500 or 5 millions 
> articles, 2 or 20,000 active users, you allway feel you lack content and 
> editors ! ;-)
> 
> I mean that if by chance someone or an organisation would want to developp a 
> free documentary resource for children and would be eager to invest in it, 
> there would be a way to do it: there is allready a base of articles in some 
> Vikidia versions like the english one and an organisation that proved to be 
> sustainable (actually very closed to the one of Wikipedia), then some funds 
> would allow to catch up the time of "organic growth" that some wiki 
> encyclopedia for children had. I guess it would be promotion, communication, 
> and possibly paid translation to get the most interesting, best quality, most 
> usefull articles from several wikis for children and from Simple English 
> Wikipedia (with some data analysis/study to identify and select them), to get 
> a core of say 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 articles in one language. It would be 
> quite a big operation, but it may be worth the investment. Getting a quality 
> free encyclopedia for children in a matter of months.
>  
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