> How could we say we velcome young editors and require that they conceal that > they are young?
We manage to do exactly that, even though we, too, can guess with some imperfect accuracy, that certain people are in fact children. > I just share an idea for anybody to possibly take it or elaborate his own > from it! Yeah, I doubt anyone is going to create a kids-only encyclopedia as successful as yours, and I think few here would be open to the idea. You’d probably have better success collaborating with school districts and similar organizations. From, I dream of horses She/her > On Jun 24, 2022, at 3:42 PM, Mathias Damour <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr> wrote: > > Yes, Vikidia editors are allowed (not required) to tell their age on their > user page. In the long run (or not so long), other users would roughly guess > it anyway. We get to know each other online and I guess it helps the > communication to know the age group to which belong the people you're talking > with. > How could we say we velcome young editors and require that they conceal that > they are young? > > No, I don't want money from the WMF or somebody else, for I am no more in > charge of the Vikidia association, and I never planned to take in charge > myself the kind of project I tell about. I just share an idea for anybody to > possibly take it or elaborate his own from it! > > > Envoyé: vendredi 24 juin 2022 à 23:21 > De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" <idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com> > À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia > When I had a look to the most viewed articles (not exactly recently) I had > the impression that it actually reach one of its goal that is to be a > resource for non native english speaker (that moreover don't have a well > developped Wikipedia in their native language, such as indians of a minority > language). Yet it wasn't children interest or school curriculum subjects that > were much viewed but rather adult topics. > > We could fix that by dedicating time to subjects children would learn in > school. We don’t need a separate wiki. > > However, regular users have in mind that the age told by any user isn't > verified. > One of the findings of fact in > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children's_privacy>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children%27s_privacy > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children's_privacy> > is that: > > > Self-identified children may be children, adult predators, trolls > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)>(→) > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)?action=edit>, adult > privacy-watchers testing our policies, or law enforcement personnel. > > So they might be children, child abusers, adults lying because they think > it’s funny, people looking to bring down the reputation of websites that > don’t respect the privacy of children, or a police officer that can arrest > someone in real life. All of these bring up different issues as to the safety > of children and the reputation of the adults that want to help them. This is > why the arbitration committee decided this was the best option for editors > who might actually be children: > > Users who appear to be children editing in good faith who disclose > identifying personal information may be appropriately counseled. Deletion and > oversight may be used in appropriate cases to remove the information. > > In other words, kids aren’t allowed to disclose their age. Of course, people > editing in bad faith would be blocked, anyways. Are you saying that kids are > allowed to disclose age on Wikikids? > > We disable the e-mail function from one's user account to another, so there > is no private message unless one editor would have displayed his e-mail > adress or on account on another social media. > That’s going to add an obstacle to writing to oversight and the emergency > team that intervenes when someone threatens suicide or homicide, along with a > few other teams that have a “role account” that takes advantage of the “email > this user” feature. > > I mean that if by chance someone or an organisation would want to developp a > free documentary resource for children and would be eager to invest in it, > there would be a way to do it: there is allready a base of articles in some > Vikidia versions like the english one and an organisation that proved to be > sustainable (actually very closed to the one of Wikipedia), then some funds > would allow to catch up the time of "organic growth" that some wiki > encyclopedia for children had. I guess it would be promotion, communication, > and possibly paid translation to get the most interesting, best quality, most > usefull articles from several wikis for children and from Simple English > Wikipedia (with some data analysis/study to identify and select them), to get > a core of say 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 articles in one language. It would be > quite a big operation, but it may be worth the investment. Getting a quality > free encyclopedia for children in a matter of months. > Are you saying you want money from the WMF? Or someone affiliated with the > WMF? > > From, > I dream of horses > She/her > > > > > On Jun 24, 2022, at 2:06 PM, Mathias Damour <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr > <mailto:mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>> wrote: > > Hi, > > I think that SEWP was created like it is, partly by fear of creating a > project openly directed to children, and I'm afraid it precisely make it not > so compelling for them. > How is Simple English Wikipedia not compelling for kids? Define “not > compelling.” > > Well, I didn't closely study SEWP, so I may be unfair, that's rather my > impressions : > The main rule is the simple language rather than explain a subject in a > accessible way, so you can have long and not so accessible articles in simple > language. > When I had a look to the most viewed articles (not exactly recently) I had > the impression that it actually reach one of its goal that is to be a > resource for non native english speaker (that moreover don't have a well > developped Wikipedia in their native language, such as indians of a minority > language). Yet it wasn't children interest or school curriculum subjects that > were much viewed but rather adult topics. > > I took a look at Vikidia, thought I could do something for them, signed up > with an account, read what I could find of the guidance, and created an > article on Underwater diving, following the rules as I understood them, using > properly attributed CC-by-sa content from Simple English Wikipedia as a basic > framework, and was busy expanding it when it was deleted without discussion > by user Ajeje_Brazorf with the edit summary (Please don't copy from simple > wikipedia}, and no explanation why not. If I had done that on English > Wikipedia I would risk losing my admin bit. If that is how new users are > routinely treated there that encyclopedia is doomed. I will not be back to > waste my time there. > > By the way, sorry for that, I guess it is not specific to Vikidia in english > to experiment such diagreement with newcomers, there is a discussion on this > wiki about what happened. > > On top of that, it would seem that you were able to sign up easily without > verifying your age; both verifying age and not can be problematic. > > Verifying age makes things safer in terms of everyone knowing that if someone > says they’re a kid, they’re a kid, and if they’re an adult, they’re an adult. > Part of online grooming and police sting operations is people saying “I’m a > kid, let’s meet offline." It can be problematic due to reasons of privacy. > It’s not like you want everyone knowing the age of a child who’s online. That > can mostly but entirely alleviated by only having the administration know > everyones’ birthdate, and forcing admins to have strict account security. > > We don't ask nor verify the editors ages on Vikidia. There is no status > attached to the user's age (with some few exception like check-user...), so > few reason to lie about our age if we tell it. However, regular users have in > mind that the age told by any user isn't verified. We disable the e-mail > function from one's user account to another, so there is no private message > unless one editor would have displayed his e-mail adress or on account on > another social media. And we suppress identifying information that a child > would write on his user page. > To be complete, we noticed that the UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act > 2006 appears to mandate some verifications for some status like admins on a > wiki for children (someone that would become administrator of Vikidia in > english if he is more than 16 and lives in the UK would have to provide his > identity and proof that he has passed the british vetting process). See > https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters#UK_Safeguarding_Vulnerable_Groups_Act_2006 > > <https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters#UK_Safeguarding_Vulnerable_Groups_Act_2006> > > Actually, Vikidia in english does exist, with 4,035 articles ! > > Oh, okay, so it’s going to be mostly out of whole cloth, not entirely. I’m > not sure how many articles English Wikipedia has, but I know it’s in the > millions. > > They may be a way to promote a existing (or to be launched) wiki encyclopedia > for children, to "use the momentum of Wikipedia to make it easier to discover” > I believe I’ve stated more or less stated that you can’t use our momentum > since we need for the projects we have. > > That's a constant pattern, your favorite wiki may have 500 or 5 millions > articles, 2 or 20,000 active users, you allway feel you lack content and > editors ! ;-) > > I mean that if by chance someone or an organisation would want to developp a > free documentary resource for children and would be eager to invest in it, > there would be a way to do it: there is allready a base of articles in some > Vikidia versions like the english one and an organisation that proved to be > sustainable (actually very closed to the one of Wikipedia), then some funds > would allow to catch up the time of "organic growth" that some wiki > encyclopedia for children had. I guess it would be promotion, communication, > and possibly paid translation to get the most interesting, best quality, most > usefull articles from several wikis for children and from Simple English > Wikipedia (with some data analysis/study to identify and select them), to get > a core of say 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 articles in one language. It would be > quite a big operation, but it may be worth the investment. Getting a quality > free encyclopedia for children in a matter of months. > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/4YBI3CHLI5YKY6DGMJ3AXR76XLDQXAS3/ > > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/4YBI3CHLI5YKY6DGMJ3AXR76XLDQXAS3/> > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org>_______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/YQBUIGR24KDU2JJLODMLKHTTCCXHLTQ2/ > > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/YQBUIGR24KDU2JJLODMLKHTTCCXHLTQ2/> > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/KDKGXIBVSCHYRLETGGJQ353EPHGWHM4L/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
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