"* This project is specifically to develop a leadership development plan that the Community Development team, a team which has some great people on it and a serious possibility for good in supporting volunteers, can use to do their work effectively. *" - I'm a bit dismayed that we are using volunteer time in the name of the strategy process to provide a centralised WMF team with the knowledge they need to do their job. This is not what the 2030 strategy is about - it is a self-centred approach by a WMF team to stay relevant.
On Sat, 17 Sept 2022 at 19:38, Rae Adimer via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Hey Andreas, > > On the topic of maps vs. territory...it's not beneficial to look at this > from the perspective of the WMF being a single unitary entity with a switch > that has to pick between planning and doing. This project is specifically > to develop a leadership development plan that the Community Development > team, a team which has some great people on it and a serious possibility > for good in supporting volunteers, can use to do their work effectively. > I'd much prefer that their plan be written by a diverse working group of > volunteers from across affiliates and administrative roles, than for it to > be made internally. > > My point in my initial response was that the cost of this investment in > process will provide significant benefit to the Community Development > team's work over the next best option. Yes, this is not being implemented > immediately, but given the fact that the Community Development team is > tasked with working towards the "investing in skill and leadership > development" Movement Strategy recommendation, and that successful > implementation does require planning, this is the best possible way of > going about that. If you have specific feedback about how we can improve > our efficiency in this or content of the work so far, I (and the LDWG > overall) am very much open to discussion, but disagreement over the > Movement Strategy recommendation itself is not best in this venue. > Personally, given my experiences in functionary roles watching and > responding to project takeovers, hostile "leadership", etc. across > Wikimedia communities, I am really happy that there is this push to invest > in leadership resources for existing and future communities that, if we > design it right, can do a lot of good. > > As for pre-imposed leadership, that's not what this is about. In your > initial comment you mentioned that there were tons of definitions out there > for leadership, and in this comment you mention that Wikipedia does not > like leadership. *That is why we made the definition.* Good Wikimedia > leadership, to the extent that word is even applicable, is far closer to > facilitation, mentorship, and resource-building than any idea of an actual > thought leader or designator of tasks. This was not something unanimously > agreed on in the working group, but it's something I tried (mostly > successfully) to ensure was reflected in the draft definition. I see this > not as an attempt to impose top-down leaders, but to guide the creation of > resources for future community facilitators, admins, etc. who can promote > the organic growth of Wikimedia communities in line with our movement's > values. > > Best regards, > Rae > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > User:Vermont <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Vermont> on Wikimedia > projects > they/them/theirs (why pronouns matter > <https://www.mypronouns.org/what-and-why>) > > > On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 2:07 PM Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Ramzy, >> >> I wanted to acknowledge your eloquent post (for anyone who hasn't read >> it, please do – DeepL and Google Translation do a really decent job), and >> in particular your concern about the lack of representation of South East >> Asian communities in movement governance. >> >> But I would also like to share one thought about the importance of >> leadership: it's that I think Wikimedians are not particularly keen on >> having leaders to follow. Projects like Wikipedia, Wiktionary and so on >> grew precisely because there *was* no leadership. They provided a space >> free of pre-imposed leadership. >> >> This is what attracted people: you could do something, contribute >> something, without having to ask an authority figure for permission. People >> were *trusted*, not *led*. >> >> This being so, I believe leadership is of limited value in terms of >> growing participation in line with this volunteer model. >> >> Kind regards, >> Andreas >> >> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 12:27 PM Ramzy Muliawan <muhammadara...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Pertama-tama saya ingin mengucapkan terima kasih yang setinggi-tingginya >>> kepada Kelompok Kerja Pembinaan Kepemimpinan yang telah menghasilkan >>> definisi ini. Saya pikir ini satu langkah maju yang diperlukan untuk >>> mendorong implementasi rekomendasi Strategi Gerakan mengenai penanaman >>> modal dalam pembinaan keterampilan dan kepemimpinan. >>> >>> Berkebalikan dengan respon-respon negatif yang diterima oleh prakarsa >>> ini, saya rasa mendefinisikan bentuk kepemimpinan yang diperlukan oleh >>> gerakan Wikimedia secara luas adalah sesuatu yang sudah semestinya kita >>> miliki, sebagai sebuah gerakan antarabangsa yang memiliki jaringan dan >>> struktur tata kelola yang rumit, saling terkait, dan mengandalkan waktu >>> para sukarelawan yang berharga. >>> >>> Diskusi mengenai pembinaan kepemimpinan terutama sekali bersifat >>> mendesak untuk wilayah gerakan Wikimedia yang tidak pernah, atau kurang >>> sekali, terwakili dalam tata kelola gerakan secara global. Saya berbicara >>> tentang wilayah asal saya, rantau Asia Tenggara dan Pasifik, yang memiliki >>> tingkat keberagaman proyek Wikimedia yang sangat tinggi, barangkali hanya >>> dapat disaingi oleh beberapa wilayah lain dalam gerakan; >>> organisasi-organisasi mitra lokal yang aktif; dan basis penyunting maupun >>> pasar pembaca yang terus berkembang seiring dengan penetrasi Internet yang >>> semakin mendalam. Meski wilayah ini memiliki status-status sedemikian, >>> Wikimediawan/wati dari rantau Asia Tenggara tidak pernah ada yang berhasil >>> duduk di Dewan Pengawas Yayasan Wikimedia, dan keterwakilan dari rantau ini >>> sangat terbatas pada badan-badan tata kelola gerakan seperti Komite >>> Afiliasi, Komite Bahasa, bahkan badan yang saat ini bertugas untuk >>> merumuskan piagam gerakan. Hal ini tentu saja tidak dapat dijelaskan secara >>> tunggal melalui "kecelakaan sejarah", tetapi akan jauh lebih mudah untuk >>> melihatnya dari lensa kurangnya penanaman modal dan komitmen jangka panjang >>> untuk urusan kepemimpinan ini. >>> >>> Kerja-kerja ini tidak akan selesai dalam waktu dekat, dan tidak akan >>> menghasilkan suatu hasil akhir yang dapat memuaskan seluruh pihak yang >>> memiliki kepentingan dalam gerakan Wikimedia. Namun, apa yang dapat kita >>> lakukan tentu saja adalah mencoba terlebih dahulu. Masalah-masalah seperti >>> yang saya sebutkan di atas, dalam konteks rantau asal saya namun juga saya >>> tahu terjadi pada beberapa wilayah lain, tidak akan selesai dengan saling >>> menuding dan mempermasalahkan apakah kerja-kerja ini perlu dilakukan atau >>> tidak. >>> >>> Saya mengajak para Wikimediawan/wati yang memiliki perhatian khusus pada >>> hal ini untuk turut serta membantu Kelompok Kerja dalam diskusi yang >>> penting ini. >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022, 14:29 Peter Southwood < >>> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: >>> >>>> I, too, would appreciate such enlightenment, Cheers, Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Andreas Kolbe [mailto:jayen...@gmail.com] >>>> *Sent:* 16 September 2022 20:48 >>>> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List >>>> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Leadership Development Working Group is >>>> ready for community feedback! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Ivan, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am very sorry, but I honestly don't understand what any of this is >>>> for, and why the WMF is spending money on defining leadership – money >>>> collected under the pretence that money is urgently needed to keep >>>> Wikipedia online – given that community feedback to this initiative to date >>>> seems to be largely negative. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Leadership_Development_Working_Group >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It is not like the world lacks definitions of leadership. Aren't we >>>> spending donors' money to reinvent the wheel here? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Could I refer back to an interesting thread Samuel Klein started a >>>> while back, titled "Simplifying governance processes"? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/7UVDBQTEWTR3ZNYLEP5TWAOVHF372OEL/#YRALVPPHAWMMATDUSUTZVBHG2CXOKAU6 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To me, at least, what Samuel and others said in that thread seemed to >>>> be pertinent to initiatives like this one. Samuel started by saying, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Dear Board (and all), The growing complexity of governance efforts is >>>> defeating us. Process creep is an existential threat for projects like ours >>>> – it is self-perpetuating if not actively curtailed, as it filters out >>>> people who dislike excess process. There's a reason 'bureaucrats' and >>>> 'stewards' have unglamorous titles. Global governance in particular seems >>>> to be suffering from this now. Let's try to scale it back!" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> He received no reply from the WMF, at least not here on this list where >>>> he posted. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It seems to me we are spending a great deal of money to produce words – >>>> but not words in Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikisource etc., that the public >>>> enjoys and finds valuable, but words on Meta talking about ourselves in the >>>> best navel-gazing tradition. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Now, maybe I have this all back to front and am simply clueless ... so >>>> if someone feels like enlightening me, please do! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Andreas >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 4:33 PM Ivan Martínez <gala...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> TL;DR: The draft leadership definition[1] prepared by the Leadership >>>> Development Working Group is ready for community feedback! Please share >>>> your feedback on Meta[2], the feedback form[3] or the Movement Strategy >>>> Forum[4]. You can also directly mail us at >>>> leadershipworkinggr...@wikimedia.org. The feedback will be collected >>>> till October 6, 2022. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello everyone! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I hope you are aware that the Leadership Development Working Group[5] >>>> has been working over the past few months to formulate and find ways to >>>> nurture the leadership of our movement. The Leadership Development Working >>>> Group (LDWG) is a group of Wikimedia volunteers representing different >>>> communities, languages, roles, and experiences. We are pleased to inform >>>> the community that our draft definition of leadership is now available for >>>> community feedback. This first draft definition of leadership was written >>>> after months of discussion, learning, and sharing from our community >>>> perspective. The Wikimedia Movement, which is by nature diverse and >>>> distinctive in its own way, is expressly addressed by this definition. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please consider going through the definition and letting us know what >>>> you think by October 6, 2022. The draft definition includes a general >>>> definition of leadership and subcategories that elaborate on the actions, >>>> qualities, and outcomes of good leadership. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There are many places where you can express your ideas, suggestions, >>>> and comments, such as the meta talk page[2], the feedback form[3], and >>>> Movement Strategy Forum Post[4]. You can also directly mail us at >>>> leadershipworkinggr...@wikimedia.org. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You can check if the general definition, and the subcategories align >>>> with your idea of leadership in the movement. You can also try finding the >>>> gaps, maybe some qualities of a leader or anything else are missing in the >>>> draft definition or you can check if the definition applies to all >>>> cultural, linguistic, community or other contexts of the movement and share >>>> your thoughts with us. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Together, let's celebrate the movement's diverse and distinctive >>>> leadership! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] Link to the draft definition on meta >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Leadership_Development_Working_Group/Content> >>>> >>>> [2] Link to meta talk page >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Leadership_Development_Working_Group> >>>> >>>> [3] Link to the feedback form <https://forms.gle/o7a4FYV8ZkisJF3KA> >>>> >>>> [4] Link to the Movement Strategy Forum post >>>> <https://forum.movement-strategy.org/t/leadership-development-working-group/1404> >>>> >>>> >>>> [5] Link to the meta page of LDWG >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Leadership_Development_Working_Group> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> *Iván Martínez* >>>> >>>> *Voluntario - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid * >>>> >>>> // Mis comunicaciones respecto a Wikipedia/Wikimedia pueden tener una >>>> moratoria en su atención debido a que es un voluntariado. >>>> // Ayuda a proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora: >>>> https://donate.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/HBXEEEEPUTHPIJBI5XAPB4ME4EE2O7LA/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [image: width=] >>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >>>> >>>> Virus-free.www.avg.com >>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/XD6EN2N5EIXC22SHB5H3DSFLBBTZE2AY/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/VDQBBQ44DRPQPKS4ECQYNAZUACDKSDTH/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/QLI2KNLEXHORHVN4DGU2RGRNQR6YEGH7/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/L4PH6URBJVZV5PUT22OP5XFGABW4X6KM/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
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