A detailed response by LSP to questions raised on the French Wikipedia, and a summary of the context of being subject to an unpleasant pile on, and direct personal attacks on the team, was published yesterday at: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:Les_sans_pagEs/Réponses_aux_questions_posées_à_l'association_LSP
If you can't read French, Google translate does a perfectly adequate job to do the necessary reading everyone is expected to do as a *basic courtesy*, before publishing opinions. Lane On Tue, 20 Sept 2022 at 07:34, Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > It is hard to determine what is being complained about, when the letter does > not actually link to any of the threads it complains about. If it did that, > it would be much more easily possible for someone to look into the substance > of it. It states that it has been linked to "continual bad-faith arguments" > (itself concerning; that's not a neutral summary) of discussions "on the > project’s talk page, on the administrators’ bulletin and on Le Bistro and a > formal RFC — including calls for the disestablishment of the project on the > basis of concerns around Conflicts of interest and Paid editing." > > Where are the links to those discussions? Where can I see what concerns were > raised? If there is paid editing going on, that's a substantial concern, as > is COI. If the arguments are in bad faith, well, that should be readily > apparent, too. But where are the links? > > Todd > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:17 AM Lane Chance <zinkl...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Responding to LGBTQ minority communities raising legitimate, evidence >> based, concerns of systemic bias with "stay in your lane"? >> >> I don't think I've read anything more tone deaf. >> >> The give away is "Without having looked into the actual substance". Do >> the research before rushing to punch down the voice of minority >> groups. >> >> Lane >> >> On Mon, 19 Sept 2022 at 01:25, Yair Rand <yyairr...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Without having looked into the actual substance of whatever dispute is >> > going on among frwiki and LSP, I want to put forward some good general >> > principles: >> > * The individual hiring and firing decisions of our organizations should >> > be under the exclusive jurisdiction of the entities assigned those >> > responsibilities. Public community pressure should not be able to get >> > someone fired or hired, or prevent any particular hiring or firing >> > decision. A public protest against someone's hiring is unproductive and >> > damages the collaborative environment. >> > * Responding to a community's attitude by sending out a monodirectional >> > communication, organized off-wiki and listing supporters' affiliate >> > positions, is basically the most conflict-oriented way possible to >> > approach this. >> > >> > How an affiliate manages their individual hires is the affiliate's >> > business. HR activities are complicated, and do not need to be handled in >> > the public sphere. If an affiliate wants to hire whoever, the community >> > doesn't get to veto it. >> > >> > How a community reacts to an affiliate's actions is their own business. >> > Affiliates do not get a say in local community affairs. A usergroup's or >> > chapter's collective opinion is completely irrelevant in a community >> > dialogue. If the community wants to ban someone, or even the entire >> > membership of a group, they can do that, and affiliates don't get to veto >> > it. >> > >> > (Seriously: It doesn't matter if you're the WMF's Board Chair, the CEO, or >> > whatever, you don't get an extra vote in an RfC.) >> > >> > (It should go without saying that hostile/uncivil behaviour, harassment, >> > and accusations of bad faith are not acceptable.) >> > >> > Everyone, please stay in your lane. This is like the only place on >> > Wikimedia where we clearly even _have_ obvious distinct lanes, it should >> > be manageable. >> > >> > -- Yair Rand >> > >> > >> > בתאריך יום ו׳, 16 בספט׳ 2022 ב-4:30 מאת WM LGBT >> > <wikimedial...@gmail.com>: >> >> >> >> Link: >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Open_letter_of_support_for_Les_sans_pagEs >> >> >> >> Over 35 Wikimedia organisations and many individual Wikimedians have >> >> signed in support of the initiative of our Wikimedia Affiliate Les >> >> sans pagEs professionalising their work by hiring Nattes à chat as >> >> executive director to continue their longstanding work addressing >> >> systemic bias on Wikipedia and our sister projects and groups. >> >> >> >> Les sans pagEs should be free and supported to create a better >> >> quality, more complete French-language encyclopedia, representative of >> >> different perspectives and lived experiences, instead of having to >> >> defend their work against baseless accusations of malpractice. >> >> >> >> Please ask on the meta discussion page if you would like to add your >> >> Wikimedia organisation or name in support. >> >> >> >> On behalf of >> >> Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> Public archives at >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/UWTGWAJERTSNWYLQXEERNA4GUQO6T6RG/ >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > Public archives at >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/VBM52FLSYEC4MC5CNZSP3TN7UAANQXZA/ >> > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/AJ474NR2MKPMM6VRVXPQM5K4NZ7CNSUQ/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/4HFVCD6RXAO6LJ55UBEYBJ3MOWDRELAV/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/PYISDVGCMCNY45F3RYCRCNFD62YX4KVH/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
