Dear Alan, I am far more surprised that you appear to be disparaging
Andreas Kolbe's very constructive questions and contributions.
You yourself seem to contribute nothing to the facts of the case, but
others who contribute very appropriately you would like to see blocked.
What kind of attitude is that?
H.L.
PS: If you had thought a little and perhaps also read what Andreas has
written, then you would also have noticed that Andreas has already made
a request 9 days ago, which was not answered within a week, but which
you have admonished. Shame on you!
Translated with DeepL
<https://www.deepl.com/translator?utm_source=windows&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=windows-share>
Am 10.11.2022 um 06:48 schrieb Alan Smith:
Thanks Ad,
I am concerned about Andreas Kolbe's overall behavior on this mailing
list and why the mailing list administrators tolerate this sort of
behavior for so long.
If something about the WMF's finances is not clear to you, you should
email the finance team at the WMF to seek clarification. Coming here
to raise a false alarm at every slight opportunity is distasteful.
@Mailing list admin, at what point should we be moderating or removing
people with this type of behavior from this list?
Thank you.
Alan.
On Wed, Nov 9, 2022, 23:04 Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ad,
According to the WMF's FAQ:[1]
"During this audit period, some of the Foundation's cash was
invested in mortgage backed securities, U.S. Treasury securities,
corporate bonds, and stocks (Note 3)."[1]
So it appears your information is outdated.
See also page 11 of the financial statements (page 13 in the
pdf).[2] This shows a table titled "Fair Value of Investments"
which is over my head, but which you and others may be able to
make sense of.
Among "long-term investments", this does include a figure of about
$25 million for "Stocks."
So, what does this mean?
Andreas
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_reports/Financial/Audits/2021-2022_-_frequently_asked_questions
[2]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AWikimedia_Foundation_FY2021-2022_Audit_Report.pdf&page=13
<https://foundation.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AWikimedia_Foundation_FY2021-2022_Audit_Report.pdf&page=13>
On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 9:08 PM Ad Huikeshoven
<ad.huikesho...@gmail.com> wrote:
The WMF does not invest in stocks, only in bonds.
Op wo 9 nov. 2022 21:51 schreef Andreas Kolbe
<jayen...@gmail.com>:
Dear Steven,
Thank you for your explanation. I had naively assumed the
investment income in the "Support and revenue" section of
the financial statements was only for income
/from/ investments (i.e. dividend payments etc.), without
tracking changes in the value /of/ investments as well. So
what you say makes sense.
There is still something odd though. The US stock market
dropped in 2019–2020 as well, as a result of Covid. The
Dow Jones Index went from about 26,600 at the end of June
2019 to about 25,000 by the end of June 2020, having
fallen below 20,000 in the spring. But even so, the WMF
had a positive investment income of $5.5 million that year.[1]
The following year, 2020–2021, the stock market /rose/
very substantially, with the DJI going from the said
25,000 to 34,500 by the end of June 2021 – an increase of
almost 10,000 points. Yet WMF investment income was $1
million /less/ than the year prior: just $4.4 million.[1]
In the 2021–2022 year, as you say, the stock market went
down again, the DJI dropping from the said 34,500 to
31,100 at the end of June 2022. So that drop is indeed
twice as large as the drop in 2019–2020, but to go from a
$5.5 million /gain/ in a year where the DJI dropped by
1,600 points to a $12 million /loss/ in a year where the
DJI dropped by 3,400 points struck me as odd.
And I still don't quite understand why the Q3 tuning
session forecast a $26 million surplus,[2] while the
actual surplus turned out to be just $8 million. I guess
the fact that most of the drop in the markets occurred
from April onwards could explain part of it.
Andreas
[1]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AWikimedia_Foundation_FY2020-2021_Audit_Report.pdf&page=5
<https://foundation.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AWikimedia_Foundation_FY2020-2021_Audit_Report.pdf&page=5>
[2]
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5>
On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 7:36 PM Steven Walling
<steven.wall...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 10:37 AM Andreas Kolbe
<jayen...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear WMF Finance staff,
I inquired over a week ago on Meta-Wiki why the
WMF is reporting a negative investment income
(–$12 million). There has been no answer to date.[1]
I am a layperson, but how can an investment income
be negative? Would you mind sharing what this is
about?
You probably didn't get a prompt answer because "how
can investment income be negative" is something you
could have Googled before asking the finance team.
Investments can lose value.* The US stock market has
lost a tremendous amount of value over the last year,
so it would not be surprising that most investments
would have a negative return recently.
*
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/negative-return.asp
https://www.finra.org/investors/investing/investing-basics/risk
I was also surprised to find that the reported
increase in net assets for the 2021–2022 financial
year was "only" $8.2 million. The third-quarter
F&A tuning session published in May (based on data
as of March 31) forecast a far higher surplus,
with an increase in net assets of $25.9 million.[2]
Would you mind sharing what happened in the fourth
quarter to reduce the surplus by so much?
Best wishes,
Andreas
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_reports/Financial/Audits/2021-2022_-_frequently_asked_questions
[2]
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5>
On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 3:45 PM Andreas Kolbe
<jayen...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear all,
The WMF's audited financial statements are now
available here:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/2/26/Wikimedia_Foundation_FY2021-2022_Audit_Report.pdf
Some key figures from the page numbered 4
(page 6 in the pdf):
– Net invest income was negative: –$12M (down
$16M)
– Total support and revenue was $155M (down
$8M due to that negative investment income)
– Total expenses were $146M (up $34M)
– Salaries and wages were $88M (up $20M)
– Net assets at end of year increased by $8M
For reference, the end-of-year increase in net
assets forecast in the third-quarter Finance &
Administration tuning session deck published
in May 2022 was $25.9M:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5>
Best,
Andreas
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list --
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/5M36VZBWLE6P4XCDAVL7L3FEPGNSSQNX/
To unsubscribe send an email to
wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list --
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/QHIQDCPCDC2D7FQROP6ACC4C2JUBP5D5/
To unsubscribe send an email to
wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list --
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/GLE5RY4BG2DRQFYSPPUOLZMNAA2ONV72/
To unsubscribe send an email to
wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/2GQERECVJTOEN3SSFLTTV6CNDEKWSXR6/
To unsubscribe send an email to
wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/HHS2PTXTS7JJKN6WRQUQ5NSXERBUPHKS/
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/ELJU52BMWKDC4O4ANIPWMZH5VXJSHO64/
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/JCES3QCVFQTRAGE7OUBK433JUP7E4HE3/
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
