Hello everyone,

I agree with Butch and Gnangarra. We need to solve local conflicts first
and then go for broader global collaboration. Volunteers are the fuel of
Wikimedia, it's not a wise step to completely ignore volunteers from a
particular region and start an affiliate covering those areas.

To Ankan and Aishik specifically,
Thanks a lot for your response. What you said is completely different from
what we are experiencing right now in the local community here in
Bangladesh. I'm seeing the local volunteer community including the admin
panel being divided into numerous micro-groups and these groups are being
engaged in multifaceted conflicts within themselves. In fact, executive
members from Wikimedia Bangladesh have also been engaged in heated
exchanges with several community members including a few admins in the last
few weeks. There are numerous on and private offwiki social group incidents
where the community members experienced these. The village pump of bnwiki
itself is flooded with recent heated discussions. I'm mentioning Wikimedia
Bangladesh here because I, myself have seen them being involved in
conflicts with several local organizers. Since the formation of this user
group is rooted in the local conflict in Bangladesh that involves Wikimedia
Bangladesh also, I would request not to suppress the voice of local
volunteers and try to find a solution locally that may involve perspective
from experienced global contributors. But please don't flood the global
mailing list and it's better to put an end to this user group discussion.

Being honest, Aishik is one of the most celebrated organizers in
Bangladesh, anyone active here in the local movement would agree that. It
is very weird that no one from Wikimedia Bangladesh noticed Aishik's user
page and requested them to put down the "Associate Member" status if Aishik
is not anyhow formally connected to this chapter. No local contributor
would believe that no one from the local chapter noticed Aishik's user page
before.

The contact persons of this user group are some of the most active
organizers of Wikimedia Bangladesh. In fact, they have organized and worked
hard for Wikimedia Bangladesh even more than the Executive Committee
members, we haven't at least seen the Executive Committee members actively
organizing anything in the local community in most cases. Local volunteers
can ensure that it is quite unbelievable that the founders of this user
group didn't discuss it with Wikimedia Bangladesh. I repeat it's not
possible that they didn't discuss it with the local chapter here. There are
two possible options. The first one is, the local chapter supported the
decision of launching this user group even after knowing that it would
create overlapping and conflict. And the second one is, they didn't support
and let these people go as they wish (again, knowing that there would be a
conflict). Since they are the most active organizers of Wikimedia
Bangladesh, it's not impossible that there was a conflict between these two
groups - the unstable situation in the local community also supports this
possibility.

I don't think it's valid to directly tag any concern using words like
"fictitious" and "blame on the basis of personal thoughts". There are tons
of on and offwiki proofs that may support the idea that these "allegations"
against Wikimedia Bangladesh are shared thoughts instead of just personal
opinions. But I don't think it would be a good idea to present the evidence
here since this is not the main topic in this thread (though it's very much
relevant to study the background of the current global situation). The
community came to know about an active trust and safety case against four
of the bnwiki admins for target harassment from public discussions. In
fact, in the bnwiki village pump, it has also surfaced that one or more
people from these four admins have close relations with Wikimedia
Bangladesh, and the chapter is directly or indirectly involved in the
harassment incidents. According to my observation, these harassment
incidents were some of the root causes behind the current unstable
situation in the local community which has been brought globally via the
formation of this user group.

Again, I agree with Butch and Gnangarra, we should not clog the global
mailing list with local conflict issues and solve the local conflict first.
It is better not to consider proceeding with the proposed user group and
take some time to know and collaborate with the volunteers from all over
the mentioned region, and solve the local complexities locally first.
Before launching such an ambitious initiative, our colleagues from Eseap
and other regions should be consulted and their opinions should be
considered carefully. I hope that this discussion will come to a successful
conclusion.

Regards,
Iftee

On Sat, 27 May 2023 at 09:15, Butch Bustria <bustr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Aishik,
>
> The first action you need to make is to move the meta wiki page to Draft
> page and find a working name. Maybe *Wikipedia Project West and Central
> Asia.*
>
> ESEAP started as ESEA in 2014 during Wikimania London 2014 (Source:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/ESEA_Meetup/MeetingMinutes) . I am not
> there as I was just starting my work in Singapore. The concept of a
> regional collaboration started 9 years ago when multiple countries agree to
> work on something, not one part of a country, not two countries, but four
> countries. Then on, all blood, sweat and tears to reach a consensus of 18
> Wikimedia communities (plus 15 more we have to explore in the Pacific
> islands) to come together and reach an agreement to formally build an ESEAP
> regional hub.
>
> We are open to collaboration but please start a bold confidence building
> measure to earn our trust.
>
>
> To Movement Charter Drafting Committee,
>
> Despite absence of an ESEAP person to the large committee, we humbly
> suggest that you finally settle the definition of user groups, advocacy
> groups, alliance groups, online project groups and all others to avoid any
> ambiguity as it creates confusion to partners and general public; unfair
> competition and tension amongst Wikimedians. We originally have charters
> before but now the terminology of a user group became insanely
> disorganized. Once it is drafted, it will be voted upon the general
> community anyways.
>
>
> To Everyone,
>
> The theme of Wikimania 2023 is Diversity, Collaboration, Future. We aim
> this year's event be another milestone for people to meet and do a similar
> experience Wikimedians in 2014 to form regional and thematic
> collaborations. We respect diversity but we discourage highly divisive
> discussions.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> *Butch Bustria*
> Wikimedia East, South East Asia and the Pacific
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 27, 2023, 7:26 AM Aishik Rehman <aishikreh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> To everyone,
>>
>> Thank you for your continued engagement and valuable feedback regarding
>> the establishment of the UG. We have carefully considered the concerns
>> raised regarding the name and the inclusion of the ESEAP region. We are
>> committed to addressing these issues and ensuring a conflict-free and
>> effective user group.
>>
>> Regarding the name, we understand the importance of avoiding possible
>> conflicts and overlaps. We are open to considering a non-geographical name
>> that better represents the collaborative nature of our user group. We
>> welcome suggestions and input from the community in this regard.
>>
>> In terms of the ESEAP region, we recognize the need for a balanced
>> approach. We are also open to excluding the region if it helps mitigate
>> conflicts and ensures effective collaboration. We seek serious advice and
>> assistance from those with experience and expertise to help us navigate
>> these considerations.
>>
>> To Rafi, we appreciate your input, but we want to clarify that we have no
>> links or conflicts with Wikimedia Bangladesh. Our focus is on building a
>> user group that complements and collaborates with existing affiliates. Your
>> concerns regarding Wikimedia Bangladesh are not relevant to the
>> establishment and functioning of the WAP UG.
>>
>> We invite all interested individuals to join us in finding solutions and
>> shaping the future direction of the user group. Your insights, expertise,
>> and assistance in making the UG conflict-free and effective are highly
>> valued.
>>
>> Thank you for your continued support and engagement.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Aishik Rehman
>> Volunteer, Wikimedians of the [?] User Group
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