On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 8:42 AM Jan Ainali via Wikimedia-l < [email protected]> wrote:
> Thank you Luis for your thoughtful reply. Your historical examples are > particularly illustrating because they show compromises with a long term > goal of "breaking free". They are stories of building new tools rather than > locking themselves into the existing technologies. In our context that may > mean that we will build upon and borrow where we can, rather than being > just a consumer of the Big Products of the day. > Sure, and/or using our weight to ensure that the Big Products bend to our will and not the other way around. If we have any red lines in this compromise it surely is at a privacy > preserving aspect. > I agree. Also, by focusing on a specific aspect (that is not covered at all by the OSI definition!) we have a more interesting and useful and concrete discussion. For example, I am working on an LLM-backed tool that helps editors with citation data. It uses a proxy to not expose editor IPs or user IDs to LLM vendors, though I suspect it means CloudFlare has a little bit of traceability—and you’re right that I should look more deeply at that. The example with the Wikipedia library is interesting because even if we > are using works that are non-free as sources and the ethics of many > publishers deserves to be discussed, arguably these authors at least > knowingly (albeit begrudgedly) have some sort of deal with them. It's also > not unreasonable to think that many of the authors are happy being cited > and that a citation on our projects bring some, but perhaps mostly a low, > value to them. That's a stark contrast to the ethics of how the "Frontier > models" are being made. > Two things: (1) “arguably” is very arguable for academics, who must “publish or perish” with the big journals and so don’t really have a lot of choice in the terms their publishers apply. (2) are you suggesting we should stop using Google Book Search and Internet Archive? Authors gave the same amount of consent to those book scanning projects as to the big LLMs. >
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