Muito enrolado...

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No dia 19/02/2013, às 16:34, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton 
<rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> escreveu:

> 
> Bence é o boss do AffCom, pensando nisso leiam:
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bence Damokos <bdamo...@gmail.com>
> Date: 19 February 2013 10:42
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Are chapters part of the community and board seats for 
> affiliates?
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org>
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'll separate this out as I think it is a really interesting conversation,
> and as I have heard the two arguments below repeated numerous times, it
> might be useful to think about it and the future shape of things a bit more.
> 
> I think the fundamental question is how legitimate can an interest group
> (chapters in this case) be if it's membership is significantly smaller than
> its potential membership (at least 30% of editors come from countries with
> well established chapters in afaik good standing with their local
> community)?
> The difference in the answer to this question could be behind the two
> "memes" on chapters being seen as insignificant or significant parts of the
> community based either on their membership or potential membership size.
> 
> I like to believe that people who go beyond online editing (or in the case
> of readers and donors, beyond online donations and reading) into the
> offline world are among the most dedicated of our volunteers, and knowing
> their background, they usually are well embedded in their
> local/national/linguistic communities, to the point that they are able to
> recognize and represent their interests.
> (Especially, as chapters tend to have open structures, often giving the
> right to be heard to any non-member and generally not making it difficult
> to become a member even for those advocating different directions.)
> 
> However, as our communities are very diverse (someone active on Wikipedia
> and the chapter might not be aware of recent developments in Wiktionary and
> vice versa), we need to constantly think about ways of informing and better
> engaging those whose interests we wish to represent (be this at the WMF or
> the individual chapter level).
> 
> Even if we don't subscribe to the wider interpretation of representation of
> the potential members, the actual members are still showing a level of
> dedication that I think makes it worthwhile hearing their voice in e.g.
> board selections.
> 
> All that said, the chapter selected board seat is related to the
> communities the chapters are embedded in at a further step of remove
> because of the way the process is conducted. (The list of candidates and
> questions to them, etc. are in theory non-public – although the candidate
> may choose to make it public on Meta – so the boards of chapters might not
> be in a position to directly survey their members' preferences and have to
> bring the decision on their own.)
> Therefore, I think there are definite possibilities to improve on the
> selection process, even with just chapters.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Bence
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Jan-Bart de Vreede <jdevre...@wikimedia.org
> > wrote:
> 
> > Hey
> >
> > I think that chapters represent a different part of the movement, and that
> > their input in board composition results in different candidates than we
> > would possibly elect :) At the same time the increased scope of affcom also
> > gives us the option of increasing the scope of these two selected seats to
> > include thematic organisations and user groups (giving them more "community
> > coverage" than is the case now). That would be a good discussion to have
> > over de coming months as the selected seats term expires in july next year…
> >
> > thoughts anyone?
> >
> > Jan-Bart
> >
> >
> > On Feb 19, 2013, at 8:42 AM, James Alexander <jameso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Snipping a bunch for simplicities sake
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Jan-Bart de Vreede <
> > > jdevre...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I simply don't agree.
> > >> a) Chapters are part of the community
> > >> b) Whenever a vote comes up for an appointed seat that seat obviously
> > does
> > >> not vote, therefore the (s)elected seats have a majority vote on any
> > >> appointed seat (5 our of 9 votes) Apart from that I would say that
> > Jimmy's
> > >> seat is a community seat, but recognise that not all share that
> > viewpoint.
> > >>
> > >> Jan-Bart
> > >>
> > >
> > > :-/ To be honest I don't particularly like this meme that the chapter are
> > > part of the community either. The chapters may be part of the community
> > > (and so the statement not false) but we use the phrasing in such a way as
> > > to say that they are more then they are.  There may be a part of the
> > > community but they are really a very small part of it overall.
> > >
> > > Their power in board selection and movement voice (both formally and
> > > informally) is disproportionately huge and we set them up to represent
> > the
> > > community when that is a serious misstatement. They represent their
> > members
> > > who are a very small subset of the community and often have a very
> > > different goal and interest set then the, much larger, remainder of the
> > > community and depending on the chapter may include more donors or readers
> > > then editors.
> > >
> > > That is not to say they don't do good things at times (or that it is a
> > > problem to include donors or readers, personally I think they are part of
> > > our larger community) but we should not confuse what they actually are.
> > >
> > > Jimmy is a whole different question ;) I would certainly say he deserves
> > a
> > > seat at the table, I prefer to just categorize him as "Jimmy" because
> > he's
> > > just a class of his own in all ways :).
> > >
> > > James
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
> rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
> +55 11 97 97 18 884
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