Forwarded the thread along with links to your two emails.

- Sundar

 "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for 
the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture



----- Original Message ----
> From: Ragib Hasan <ragibha...@gmail.com>
> To: Discussion list for Bangladeshi Wikimedians 
><wikimedia...@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Cc: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 11:27:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Wikimedia-BD] Updates on Google translation 
>project in Tamil Wikipedia
> 
> Hi Sundar,
> 
> Please go ahead and forward our emails/thread to your contacts  at
> Google. Once again, we are open to the Google translation project  as
> long as we are kept informed and the article creation process  follows
> our local community standards.
> 
> 
> Ragib
> 
> 
> 
> On  Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Belayet Hossain <bella...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  Sundar,
> > That will be a nice idea. Please go ahead. They can discuss it  in that
> > mailing lists or at local Wikipedia page.
> >
> >  Belayet
> >
> > On 3 December 2010 10:56, BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbe...@yahoo.com>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Ragib, Belayet,
> >>
> >> Good  to see you here. :)
> >>
> >> Shall I forward your email to the  Google Translation team? If they wish
> >> so, they
> >> can take  it from there.
> >> What do you think?
> >>
> >>  Cheers,
> >> Sundar
> >>  "That language is an instrument of human  reason, and not merely a medium
> >> for
> >> the expression of  thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> >> - George Boole, quoted in  Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  ----- Original Message ----
> >> > From: Ragib Hasan <ragibha...@gmail.com>
> >> >  To: Discussion list for Bangladeshi Wikimedians
> >> ><wikimedia...@lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>  > Cc: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>  > Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 10:01:15 AM
> >> > Subject: Re:  [Wikimediaindia-l] [Wikimedia-BD] Updates on Google
> >> >  translation
> >> >project in Tamil Wikipedia
> >>  >
> >> > I agree with what Belayet mentioned about the Google  translated
> >> > articles on  Bengali Wikipedia. So far, we have not  been contacted by
> >> > Google directly.  Rather, we have dealt with  the paid contractors who
> >> > were hired by Google. As  Belayet has  said, the paid translators do not
> >> > follow up with the  translations  (except for a single case). Which in
> >> > turn, causes  a lot of problems for us to  fix the articles.
> >> >
> >> >  Technically, we have not "banned" Google translated  articles or
> >>  > contributors who use GTT. Rather what we have discouraged is   the
> >> > dump-and-run translators who just dump their malformed  translation  and
> >> > never responds to our messages or makes a  second edit to the  article
> >> > to fix it. In most of the cases we  dealt with recently, we  haven't
> >> > even deleted the articles ...  rather we moved them to user  space,
> >> > giving the user a chance  to fix the article to readable  Bengali.
> >> >
> >> > So,  basically, here are the issues:
> >> >
> >> > 1. We'd love  to work  with Google if they collaborate with us and take
> >> >  responsibility of producing  readable content.
> >> >
> >> >  2. Which means, translations can't be dump-and-run  jobs. Since the
> >>  > translator toolkit is still horrible in  English-to-Bengali
> >>  > translation, the Google team or their translators need to  do fix  the
> >> > pages to make them readable and grammatically  correct.
> >> >
> >> > 3.  We can use the current system ...  i.e., translators are free to do
> >> > all of the   sandboxing/translation experiments in their user space. We
> >> > are  very picky  about the content that goes into the article space and
> >>  > don't want half-done,  incorrect language articles to go there.  So,
> >> > after a translation article has  been approved by the  community, it can
> >> > be moved to the main space.
> >>  >
> >> > But  to do any of the above, the Google team needs to  contact us. We
> >> > don't know  who is or who isn't working for  Google. Almost all the
> >> > vendors/contractors we  have dealt so  far used thorwaway accounts that
> >> > are used only once, and never   again.
> >> >
> >> > Bottom line: we are happy to work with  Google, but only if Google  does
> >> > not bypass the existing  Bengali wikipedian  community.
> >> >
> >> >  Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Ragib
> >> >
> >>  > User:Ragib on bn and  en
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >  --
> >> > Ragib Hasan, Ph.D
> >> > NSF Computing Innovation  Fellow  and
> >> > Assistant Research Scientist
> >>  >
> >> > Dept of Computer Science
> >> > Johns  Hopkins  University
> >> > 3400 N Charles Street
> >> > Baltimore, MD   21218
> >> >
> >> > Website:
> >> >  http://www.ragibhasan.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >>  >
> >> > On Thu, Dec 2,  2010 at 9:19 PM, Belayet Hossain <bella...@gmail.com>
> >> >  wrote:
> >> > >  Ravi,
> >> > > That's a nice process  to deal with Google translation project. In
> >> > >   Bengali
> >> > > Wikipedia, if the translation is not in  acceptable quality  community
> >> > > also
> >> > >  shift content to the user namespace of that translator  and ask them
> >>  > > to
> >> > > improve it. But there are very few examples  that  translator rewrite
> >> > > or
> >> > > retouch  the article to improve it. Translators are  not coming back to
> >> >  > take
> >> > > care of their article. So a lot of untouched bad   translated articles
> >> > > are in
> >> > > the user  namespace at Bengali  Wikipedia.
> >> > >
> >> > > And  from my experiences in Bengali Wikipedia the  translators are not
> >>  > > consistent with their translations. If you rated  someone for  the
> >> > > first time
> >> > > for his first  translation, it is not be sure  the second translation
> >> > >  will be
> >> > > same quality or better than the first  one. So  community have to
> >> > > re-rated
> >> him
> >>  > > every time he post an  article.
> >> > >
> >> >  > Since the translators are not regular at Wikipedia and  they are  not
> >> > > responsive. There is no other contact point available  for  the
> >> > > community to
> >> > > communicate  with them. We can create a translation  coordination page
> >> > >  at
> >> > > local Wikipedia, but there is no way to inform the   existing or new
> >> > > translators to follow the  page.
> >> > >
> >> > > I am  very much interested to  know, how Tamil community communicating
> >> > > with
> >>  > > the  translators at Google?
> >> > >
> >> >  > Belayet
> >> > >
> >> > > On 3 December  2010  07:12, Shiju Alex <shijualexonl...@gmail.com>
> >>  > >  wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Congrats  to Tamil community for trying to bring  out a process for
> >> >  >> Google's
> >> > >> Translation  project.
> >>  > >>
> >> > >> I really wonder how other language  communities  are handling this.
> >> > >> Apart
> >> >  >> from Tamil, Google Translation project is  going on at least  in
> >> > >> Hindi,
> >> > >> Kannada, and  Telugu. It is banned in  Bengali wiki.
> >> > >>
> >>  > >> I could see many articles are loaded to  wikis each day. And for  
many
> >> > >> of
> >> > >> them the only  contributor is the  Google employee who translated it.
> >> >  >>
> >> > >>  Shiju
> >> > >>
> >>  > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Thu, Dec 2,  2010 at  7:55 PM, Arjuna Rao Chavala
> >> > >> <arjunar...@googlemail.com>   wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>  Hi,
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>  Thanks a lot  for the update.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I  think the  updated  process is similar with Open source community
> >>  > >>>  philosophy when Commercial companies (like IBM, Sun etc)  
contribute
> >> >source
> >> > >>> code.   Tamil  Wiki has that kind of  rigor in quality  checking and
> >> >  >>> is
> >> able
> >> > >>> to do a good job.  Other Wikipedias  may not  be in a position to
> >> > >>>  engage in
> >> >a
> >> > >>> similar way, due to  policies  and/or  level of active wikipedians.
> >> > >>>  One
> >> more
> >> > >>> comment  below.
> >>  > >>>
> >> > >>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 7:19 PM,   Ravishankar <ravidre...@gmail.com>
> >>  wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>   Hi,
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Some  updates on the Google  translation project in Tamil Wikipedia.
> >> >  >>>>  --snip
> >> > >>>>
> >> >  >>>> We did a quality review of these  articles and found that  only
> >> > >>>> around 50%
> >> >  >>>> of them has an  acceptable minimum quality regarding  translation (
> >> > >>>> We
> >> just
> >>  > >>>>  rated the style of the language and accuracy in  translation. We
> >> > >>>> did not
> >> >do   a
> >> > >>>> full review on the merit of the   article).
> >> > >>>> --snip--
> >> >  >>>
> >> > >>> Can you  elaborate more on the style?   How did you measure the
> >> > >>> accuracy
> >>  of
> >> > >>> translation? It may be desirable to adopt the  English  articles for
> >> > >>> the
> >> >  >>> target wikipedia, than verbatim  translation.
> >> >  >>> How much effort was spent to arrive at the above  conclusions?  #  
of
> >> > >>> articles, # of reviewers, time frame etc  would  help.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>  Thanks
> >> > >>>  Arjun
> >> >  >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> >  >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>   _______________________________________________
> >> > >>>   Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> >> > >>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>  > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
> >>  > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >  >>
> >> > >>   _______________________________________________
> >> > >>  Wikimediaindia-l  mailing list
> >> > >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>  > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
> >>  > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >  >
> >> > >  --
> >> > > Belayet Hossain
> >>  > > http://www.facebook.com/bellayet
> >> > >   http://twitter.com/bellayet
> >> > > http://bellayet.wordpress.com   (Bangla)
> >> > > Knowledge is universal
> >> > >                ...so share  it.
> >> > >
> >> > >  Hillel____
> >> > > If I am not for myself, who will be for   me?
> >> > > If I am only for myself, what am I?
> >> >  > If not now,  when?
> >> > >
> >> > >  _______________________________________________
> >> > >   Wikimedia-BD mailing list
> >> > > wikimedia...@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>  > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-bd
> >> >  >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >  _______________________________________________
> >> >  Wikimediaindia-l  mailing list
> >> > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>  > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
> >>  >
> >>
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimediaindia-l  mailing list
> >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
> >
> >
> >
> >  --
> > Belayet Hossain
> > http://www.facebook.com/bellayet
> > http://twitter.com/bellayet
> > http://bellayet.wordpress.com (Bangla)
> > Knowledge is  universal
> >               ...so share it.
> >
> >  Hillel____
> > If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
> > If I am  only for myself, what am I?
> > If not now, when?
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-BD mailing  list
> > wikimedia...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-bd
> >
> >
> 
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