On 12 September 2011 16:47, Theo10011 <de10...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Copyright violations aren't only important from an academic plagiarism point
> of view but also legal and ethical, you seem to be only focusing on text
> based violation in Academia maybe. Commons users and admins spend the better
> part of their time educating themselves and dealing with these violations
> from different countries not because of some honesty issues but real legal
> ones.Violations more often than not, can lead to court cases, damages and
> expose the project to liability.

No doubt but the Commons/Source model is broken for cases like India
where documents are in the public domain here but not in the USA. That
said, I digress. I agree with you on the legal issues around copyvio
and it is important from the WMF's point of view since they carry the
can on this. What I was uncomfortable with was what I saw as perhaps
an over-reaction to the issue. Sure, "rather safe than sorry" is a
possible answer but it's not one I favour because we tend to err too
much on the side of caution.

> already complied with located here[1]. For images, I can attest to spending
> several hundred hours talking on IRC and looking for copyright terms of
> different countries to comply with.

No doubt, Theo and it's very important work too.

> seriously. I am not sure if "Intellectual honesty" means ethics in this
> context but I would disagree if that is what WMF and other Wikipedians would
> be concerned about, it's really the legal liability that they expose WMF and
> projects to. Maybe Hisham can clarify.

Here's is what I was highlighting - yes, the issue of copyvio is
important but given that this was in the context of an educational
program, the larger issue ought to have been in the context of
education - plagiarism and intellectual honesty and then about
copyvio. If you're going to talk about copyvio as the most important
element within an education program, it has a bearing on issues
outside of just the Wikimedia movement and is a much larger

>> > Second, if we don't uphold the "WMF policies" (they are actually project
>> > policies, not the foundation's) in an officially sanctioned and financed
>> > program, then who will?

Again - I'm not saying they don't matter. I'm saying the priorities
are not in order.

> As I saw it, you stated that copyright violations are no big deal,
> especially in India and the more important thing is being honest
> (Intellectually) when someone plagiarizes or something to that effect.

I think I have explained myself, above. Copyvio is important but in
the current context, there are other elements that should have first
been considered.

> I am well aware of your position as a open-source book publisher and a
> Creative commons hero along with someone I respect, that was why I found
> your position very surprising on this issue.

Appreciate your kind words, Theo.

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