Ahem <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Oral_Citations>.

On Tuesday 29 November 2011 03:20 PM, wheredevelsd...@hotmail.com wrote:
> There seems to be a little bit of misunderstanding. I was talking of 
> English Wikipedia and livability of English references.
>
> I have helped a couple of articles attain GA status. We conducted a PR 
> for FA status and realised some of the refs need to be changed. At GA 
> level they were accepted due to YES:POV, however to attain FA they 
> need to be changed to better refs. We have had to give a break and 
> wait for such refs to come up before we can proceed.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:17:21 +0530
> From: ashwin.bain...@gmail.com
> To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Quality Issues with English Wikipedia
>
> I agree partially with you, Pranav. Yes, finding reliable sources in 
> Indic languages can be quite a challenge.
>
> My own personal view is this - But while a source may be in a language 
> but its utility as a reference is basically language neutral. That 
> means a source in any language can be used providing you can read it 
> and cite it. I dont see so many places where sources are not available 
> in English but are available in indic languages. For vast majority of 
> article subjects, english language web can provide all the sources you 
> can possibly need. What is needed is NOT to have an attitude where 
> anything English is painted as a villain.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, <wheredevelsd...@hotmail.com 
> <mailto:wheredevelsd...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Bigno, Ashwin - you hit the nail on the head.
>
>     One other point I dont see mention is availability of reliable
>     sources. For Indian articles, that is something that can be
>     difficult to find at times.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:01:57 +0530
>     From: ashwin.bain...@gmail.com <mailto:ashwin.bain...@gmail.com>
>     To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>     Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Quality Issues with English Wikipedia
>
>
>     Srikanth, I find it a bit difficult to believe that the reason you
>     said is the only reason why English editting stopped. It must be a
>     combination of many things-
>
>     * Retirement and reduction of editting by long term editors
>     * For some reason, the same pleasure no longer felt in editting.
>     * Hostile atmosphere, lots of rules & edit-warring.
>     * Switching part of effort to Indic,  Commons, GLAM, Outreach etc.
>     * Lesser recruitment of newbies.
>     etc
>
>     Anyway, whatever be the causes, I think you and I  and all of us
>     agree that we need to make WikiProject India a happening place again.
>
>     Warm regards,
>
>     Ashwin Baindur
>     ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>     On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan
>     <parakara.gh...@gmail.com <mailto:parakara.gh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hisham,
>         Do note, we had ALL that till two years ago.
>         Since the offline meetups have begun, a lot of English editors
>         have now reduced editint to concentrate on outreach activities
>         and all.
>         --Re,
>
>
>         On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Hisham <his...@wikimedia.org
>         <mailto:his...@wikimedia.org>> wrote:
>
>
>             On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Ashwin Baindur wrote:
>
>                 This is a letter to all Indian editors of the English
>                 Wikipedia requesting discussion, cooperation and help.
>
>                 Recently I was asked to give a three to four minute
>                 presentation on the state of WikiProject India on
>                 English Wikipedia for the session on state of Indic
>                 Wikipedias at the recently concluded WikiConference in
>                 Mumbai. At first I thought nothing about the matter,
>                 but as I was compiling the report, I came across
>                 statistics which would horrify any of us.
>
>                 To begin with, as of time of writing this post,
>                 WikiProject India has a total of 90,021 articles. This
>                 is a very large number and second only to Hindi
>                 Wikipedia's 100,588 articles. Since all these English
>                 articles cover only India or some aspect of its
>                 geography, history, culture or its people, this set of
>                 90,000+ articles is important to all Indians,
>                 representing the largest core of knowledge about India
>                 on any Wikipedia project.
>
>                 But all of this is not high quality stuff. User:Svick
>                 on English Wikipedia provides a useful service to
>                 WikProjects on English Wikipedia. He provides a
>                 WikiProject-wise listing of articles which have
>                 improvement tags such as {{unreferenced}},
>                 {{cleanup}}, {{copyedit}} and so on. In his report for
>                 WikiProject India, at the following url:
>
>                 
> http://toolserver.org/~svick/CleanupListing/CleanupListingByCat.php?project=India
>                 
> <http://toolserver.org/%7Esvick/CleanupListing/CleanupListingByCat.php?project=India>
>
>
>                 you will find that of the 79435 articles in this
>                 project which were assessed by Svick, a total of 52077
>                 articles or 65.6 % are marked for cleanup, with 86271
>                 issues in total. These are tagged with 82 different
>                 types of tags, the most populous being :
>
>                 * Articles with unsourced statements (6815)
>                 * Articles lacking reliable references (1989)
>                 * Articles needing additional references (4840)
>                 * Articles lacking sources (8970)
>                 * BLP articles lacking sources (1297)
>                 * Articles needing cleanup (2751)
>                 * Articles containing potentially dated statements (9317)
>                 * All articles needing coordinates (14571)
>                 * Articles to be expanded (1020)
>
>                 Besides this, there are 40,338 articles unassessed for
>                 importance and 20,527 for quality, making a backlog of
>                 60,865 assessments.
>
>                 In addition, of the 90,000+ articles, there are 43,843
>                 stubs and 10,986 start class articles. All these need
>                 to be developed in time also.
>
>                 Besides these are a very large number of cryptic
>                 articles, articles pertaining to India but not tagged
>                 on the talk page with the WikiProject banner. The
>                 articles themselves sometimes need more cleanup tags
>                 than are marked at present.
>
>                 You may have read Sven Manguard's special opinion
>                 editorial in the Signpost some time ago
>
>                 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-10-31/Opinion_essay
>                 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3aWikipedia_Signpost/2011-10-31/Opinion_essay>
>
>                 wherein he has drawn attention to the hundreds of
>                 thousands of articles needing cleanup and improvement
>                 on Wikipedia as a whole.  That is exactly the issue
>                 with WikiProject India, as of now.
>
>                 To me it appears that - Something needs to be done
>                 URGENTLY.
>
>                 My own suggestion is that this can easily be tackled
>                 if all of us do a little bit every day. Many hands
>                 make light work. There are about 450 active editors
>                 listed on the WikiProject members page. If each of us
>                 decided to do just one cleanup task each day, then we
>                 can do away with 1,64,500 odd problems in a year. Over
>                 time, these issues will fall to negligible levels.
>
>                 Please reply to this thread with your views. Firstly,
>                 do you agree with me. Is there a problem or am I
>                 sensationalising the case? What exactly are the issues
>                 and how do we resolve them. Can we as Indians rise to
>                 the challenge and bring down these backlogs to
>                 manageable levels. Please  give us any ideas, inputs,
>                 insights or critiques that may occur to you.
>
>             Many thanks for your note, Ashwin.  I think this is a
>             really important discussion and I agree wholeheartedly
>             with you about the need to do something, and the need to
>             do it urgently!
>
>             I notice your initiative to Collaboration of the Month on
>             a select set of nominated articles - and that's fantastic.
>              That's exactly the kind of stuff that needs to be done.
>
>             Here are few thoughts that I had
>
>               * We need to create a sense of community and
>                 collaboration.  It would really be nice if as many
>                 interested editors as possible sing up.  One comment
>                 I've heard from some wikimedians is that there isn't
>                 enough collaborative editing.  Can we create some
>                 vehicle for this?  For instance, can we take some time
>                 out in community meetups and do a little bit for one
>                 or more of these articles?  Can we create some kind of
>                 mini-events equivalent to hackathons?  For instance,
>                 can we create an Edit Utsav every (just throwing this
>                 out as an example) on Sunday afternoons every week?
>               * We need to make a start - no matter how small  Even if
>                 you choose to do 2 articles per month for
>                 Collaboration of the Month, that's great and we should
>                 take it from there and slowly build up.
>               * We need to create excitement and momentum.  For this
>                 to happen, we need to be generous in our celebration.
>                  I think every article that interested editors work on
>                 as part of your Collaboration of the Month should be
>                 celebrated - on this mailing list, on the WP:INDIA
>                 talk page, on various social handles (let's
>                 shamelessly exploit Tinu's vast fan following here)
>                 and maybe even in the press.
>               * We need to have something to work towards (in your
>                 parlance, a beachhead...  :-)).  I have an idea.
>                  There are a bunch of discussions happening on various
>                 offline initiatives.  One challenge that these will
>                 face will be to select a reasonable set of acceptable
>                 quality articles on India.  I don't know what that
>                 number should be or how long it should take - but
>                 whatever the determinations are on both of these, what
>                 if you have these work with the offline initiative
>                 (which I also know is also very dear to your heart.)
>               * We need to magnify an already big message.  One common
>                 refrain I've heard from many who are interested in
>                 editing Wikipedia is  the equivalent of "everything is
>                 covered; I don't know what to edit".  Asking folks in
>                 India to edit about India is a powerfully relevant
>                 message - and one that they are likely to intuitively
>                 connect with.  ..and as you've outlined, there is no
>                 shortage of articles - many of great importance /
>                 relevance.  Maybe this could be a message covered in
>                 every outreach sessions that community folks
>                 undertake?  [Edit] India!
>
>
>             In all of this, do let me know if there is anything we can
>             do to help and we'll do our best.
>
>             Best
>
>             hisham
>
>
>             _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>         -- 
>         Regards,
>         Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
>         Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th.
>         http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
>
>
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