hi, Curious: Is anybody testing this for mobile web? Shiju's report last week suggested an increase in traffic via mobile web, I think. I have started trying to read ml.wiki on my cell pointing my phone browser at ml.m.wikipedia.org and all I get are boxes right now. Pradeep Handheld
On 14/12/2011, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabot...@gmail.com> wrote: > Have found a few more bugs in testing (other than the ones mentioned in the > original mail) > > 1) Nepali - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33039 > 2) Sanskrit, Hindi and Nepali - > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33038 > 3) Odiya - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33034 > 4) Sanskrit, Hindi - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33040 > > And they keep coming. At this rate me and srikanth should be paid per bug > by the WMF. I am yet to touch Assamese, Marathi, Punjabi, Bengali or > Firefox 4.x, 6.x and IE 6.0, 8.0 and have only began Chrome testing. I am > totally wiped for the day and quitting testing. Will try to cover the other > cases tomorrow. > > Two thoughts at the end of a long day: > i) To i18n team: Instead of launching a such a buggy code, that too as a > compulsory and default option for all users, why not listen to feedback and > do proper testing?. Testing is always better than firefighting. Its never > too late, roll back this "soft launch", form language teams, test this for > a few weeks thoroughly and then do project by project launches. > > ii)To Hindi, Telugu, Kannada, Sanskrit, Oriya, Marathi, Assamese and > Bengali folks on this list. Spread the word and test, test, test. File bug > reports. This needs thorough testing in all OSes/browsers/connections by > people who know the language. Learn from this experience and dont accept > any untested products. Mayur has reported in one of the bugs that hi wiki > users are reporting strange issues and has suggested making webfonts > optional [1] A few weeks back i tried to warn the communities not to accept > webfonts without proper testing. [2] What i feared has come to pass. > Probably should have posted in all village pumps. > > ==Links== > [1]https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33024 > [2] > http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-November/005153.html > > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan < > parakara.gh...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Also forgot to tell you. My college uses ONLY systems with Windows XP >> and Internet Explorer 6. Most students are from a Tamil background, >> and they read Tamil websites, Wikipedia very often. >> >> On 12/13/11, Srikanth Lakshmanan <srik....@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > Pardon for a long mail, just unavoidable. >> > >> > We have seen the WebFonts roll out[0] last night to most Indic wikis >> except >> > Malayalam and Tamil. We in Tamil Community felt WebFonts extension is >> just >> > not ready for us. We would like to share on why we in Tamil community >> didnt >> > chose webfonts and also what could work better in future for Indic >> > communities during technology adoption. >> > >> > 1. *Unavailability of "Quality Free fonts"* :- >> > During the development, our request for not setting the default font as >> > a >> > lower quality font was rejected citing "it will defeat the purpose of >> > extension".[1] The available fonts had issues and deploying the >> > extension >> > with those low quality fonts to everyone would not only defeat the >> purpose >> > of extension, but also gives Tamil Wikipedia a bad image when people >> > just >> > cant read the fonts even though they had better fonts in system. (Just >> like >> > how i18n team says people who see boxes will just simply close the >> window, >> > we say giving these poor fonts will also lead to same thing and not help >> > the cause, instead will also hurt those who have better fonts.). >> > >> > 2. *Quality of User Experience* :- >> > We are a smaller wiki, we have a smaller reader base, but still we are >> > ranked 7th most visited website in Tamil according to alexa[2]. Just >> > like >> > how no-nonsense / no-mediocrity is tolerated in any code that enters WMF >> > cluster, any change which will affect the site's look and feel, user >> > experience will have to be of highest standards and must be accepted by >> > community. WebFonts were just not ready to enter Wikipedia, since it >> > changes the UX for all the readers to help a potentially lower number of >> > users who dont have Tamil fonts than the current existing reader base. >> > >> > *What we feel was wrong in WebFonts deployment* >> > >> > We have also been seeing the wikis where they have been rolled out and >> > reporting issues. We ourselves are reporting issues inspite of not >> > taking >> > WebFonts, with the hope software just gets better and some day we can >> > deploy them. Dont get us wrong, we are not against technology, we just >> need >> > it in better form and are not in any urgency. (After all we at Ta wiki >> > initiated an RFC and asked Webfonts even before the announcement was >> made). >> > We would also like to mention some points which we feel i18n team could >> > have done better for a smoother launch. >> > >> > 1. *Font Testing* :- >> > The point of language support team is that the people who are aware of >> > language give feedback to make any software better supported for the >> > language. We are not sure if Font-Testing was ever done at all for those >> > languages where the WebFonts were deployed. The hinting issue which was >> > a >> > concern and made us raise against deployment in Tamil is also present in >> > Hindi,Sanskrit,Telugu(atleast till we saw) and gave the same worst >> > readability. The i18n team did font assessment[3], testing only 1 word >> > to >> > test the font. Can any font be tested with just rendering of 4 >> characters / >> > 1 word? For Tamil,we did a test in little more comprehensive way(We >> > would >> > not say its complete)[4]. This should have been a *must* to see >> rendering / >> > font issues with chosen default font especially since the fonts are >> > being >> > set default to every single user to the site. Sadly community was >> involved >> > the least, a note was posted in Village pumps and we dont think >> > community >> > involved itself in any testing and poor quality was eventually pushed >> > without proper testing. >> > >> > 2. *Real world testing* :- >> > Though cross browser testing was done, there was a severe lack of real >> > world testing and as a result we are seeing a host of issues being >> > discovered post launch. Average PC in India might have 1 GB RAM, Firefox >> 3 >> > / 4, worse IE 5.5 / IE6 on 100 Kbps semi-broadband connection. We cannot >> > tell them move to latest or ignore them. More care should have been >> > taken >> > especially since the webfonts is bound to set a default font. >> > >> > With only a few hours of testing serious issues have been found - in IE >> 8 >> > where webfonts might be rolled back [5], IE 7.0 (where webfonts dont >> work) >> > [6] , ubuntu + Firefox (fixed now) [7] and Win+Firefox 5.0, [8]. We >> > are >> > still testing for other browsers and usecases and dont know how many >> issues >> > we will discover. In short - This code is not ready to go live, >> especially >> > when it is being made default compulsorily for everyone. There are >> serious >> > performance issues for typical Indian internet connections as well.[9] >> > >> > 3. *Communication and Community Engagement* :- >> > Most of the above things could have solved earlier if there was more >> > communication and community engagement. We asked for more information, >> > engagement on this very list. There was no reply to the mail on >> increasing >> > community engagement for i18n projects[10]. Most communities know >> WebFonts >> > is coming on Dec 12, didnt know what was coming, any further details. >> > Worse, Even Indic Consultant was not having clear information. Why this >> > lack of transparency? Community is more than willing to help, if only >> they >> > are informed. Even though we did not take up WebFonts, we have spent >> > time >> > to help making it better. >> > >> > And the end users in the wikis dont know where to report and follow up >> > issues. (Not everyone is aware of and familiar with the Bugzilla >> process). >> > The request we raised to have a visible bug reporting link has not been >> > acted upon [11]. There might be a lot of issues going unreported, >> > because >> > people dont know whom to report to. When a change of this scale is being >> > done, Community admins must be advised to run Sitenotice campaigns to >> > inform the users about the change with some solid newbie oriented >> > documentation. Infact this must be done for RFC itself, so as to make an >> > informed decision. We did the same for RFC in Tamil[12]. >> > >> > *Proposal for Future i18n / any special deployments to Indic >> wikiprojects*:- >> > >> > The WebFonts deployment is a classic example of making deployment >> > without >> > enough community engagement. Can this done in any of English / German / >> > Russian wikipedia which have a strong community? The fact that Tamil / >> > Malayalam resisted was because the community had concerns over the >> > solution. Till an hour before deployment yesterday, we did not know if >> > Ta >> > wiki projects will get webfonts despite our objections. We had been >> > pursuing Siebrand and Gerard across forums - facebook, twitter, meta >> > talk >> > pages, village pumps, gmail chat etc looking for answers. But till the >> > deployment happened, we had no clue what we would be getting. This >> > method >> > of deploying in silence *must* stop ASAP. Any deployment to any Indic >> wiki >> > must go through the community (language support teams) informed of the >> > change with Indic Consultant kept in loop. We suggest Shiju Alex to work >> on >> > a policy and put it in place regarding this. If there is problem >> > identifying community members to help, we are sure Shiju will help >> > connecting. >> > >> > Irrespective of that happening Tamil Wiki Projects will follow this >> process. >> > >> > 1. Test any deployment on translatewiki >> > 2. File Bugs and verify in translatewiki till it reaches acceptable >> level. >> > 3. Language support team member will make a RFC page explaining the >> merits >> > / demerits of the technology in simple terms with use of screenshots / >> > external links >> > 4. Reverify / Ask for deployment in largely-inactive Wikiprojects like >> > WikiQuote / WikiBooks *post community concensus* >> > 5. Test again / File Bugs >> > 6. Reverify / Ask for deployment Wikiprojects next in line in terms of >> > activity ( Wiktionary / Wikinews/ Wikisource) >> > 7. Test again / File Bugs >> > 8. Only after ironing out all issues, any deployment will be allowed in >> > Tamil Wikipedia. >> > >> > We had burnt our fingers during Narayam deployment already once and >> > community was so resistive of Narayam itself and was asking to go back >> > to >> > older javascript solution. After that we followed the above process for >> > bringing back Narayam on all Tamil Wikiprojects. >> > >> > We suggest the other communities adopt something similar. We sincerely >> hope >> > that the community engagement is improved, not just before deployment, >> even >> > from start of development. >> > >> > [0] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/12/12/going-live-december-12-2011/ >> > [1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30506 >> > [2] http://www.alexa.com/topsites/category/Top/World/Tamil >> > [3] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/WebFonts_assessment >> > [4] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/User:Sodabottle/test1 >> > [5] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32775 >> > [6] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33024 >> > [7] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33025 >> > [8] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33018 >> > [9] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33027 >> > [10] >> > >> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-November/005153.html >> > [11] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32942 >> > [12] http://tawp.in/r/2r1f >> > >> > -- >> > Regards >> > Bala Jeyaraman & Srikanth.L >> > >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Srikanth Ramakrishnan. >> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th. >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> > -- Pradeep Mohandas How Pradeep uses email - http://goo.gl/6v1I9 _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
