On 02/22/2012 07:00 AM, wikimediaindia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
> From: Srikanth Lakshmanan <srik....@gmail.com> To: Wikimedia India
> Community list <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Cc: WMF
> Localisation team <localisation-t...@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re:
> [Wikimediaindia-l] Localisation and internationalisation bugs affecting
> Indic language communities Message-ID:
> <ca+30aunziw70guq189dlp0wf2ttgijxl5vndzebp3+r3pbq...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at
> 10:54, Sumana Harihareswara <suma...@wikimedia.org>wrote:
>> > On 02/20/2012 07:00 AM, wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.orgwrote:
>>> > > Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:23:08 +0530
>>> > > From: Srikanth Lakshmanan <srik....@gmail.com>
>>> > > If you are asking only about technical issues, many communities do log
>> > bugs
>>> > > from time to time. But when they remain open beyond certain period and
>> > the
>>> > > person who logged becomes inactive, they go into black hole and there is
>> > no
>>> > > one to follow up(even if its fixed, they remain open).
>> >
> There is nothing to be distressed here.
>> > Srikanth, this is distressing to hear!  If you could point to some
>> > specific Bugzilla reports that have gone into the "black hole",
>> > including ones that no longer reflect reality, I could help ask the
>> > localisation team to follow up and at least put some updated information
>> > in the issues at bugzilla.wikimedia.org .
>> >
> They are called "black hole" for the reason anyone(apart from the filer /
> folks who conversed) might not be able to easily spot them. In most cases
> the bugs lack update from the filers / language communities. But again if
> the filer is from one generation and has retired, who does the follow up?
> Ideally language support teams must do it. But all of us know Indic
> communities have very few people to look into these and the common pattern
> I have found across few communities I have interacted is that spending time
> on bugzilla / improving technology/language support is not going to change
> things big way, so I might as well be contented (Ex:- "Why Narayam when js
> works fine") with whats there and do my editing. But at some point,
> communities need to focus on these, as and when the communities grow, they
> will also get contributors who are interested in supporting the language
> technically.
>> > But the larger
>>> > > issues are common and pretty much known to i18n team. (like say PDF
>>> > > rendering). I tried cleaning up Tamil related bugs recently which were
>>> > > documented here[1] since 2006, also created a tracking bug[2].
>>> > >
>>> > > But then as someone else said, "People are just waiting for one more
>>> > > tracking bug to fix those. !" //So tracking bugs don't help beyond a
>> > point !
>> >
>> > This is also distressing to hear!  I'm not quite sure what was implied
>> > there -- did the speaker mean that the localisation team won't address
>> > certain problems until there are more tracking bugs to help track
>> > issues, or something else?
>> >
> The quote was from one of the bugs I remember seeing on bugzilla, said by
> someone on a totally different bug nothing related to localization. The
> point I implied quoting it was "process for the sake of it doesn't help
> much beyond a point". Adding tracking bugs does not impact the age of the
> bug. The bugs remain open either because they are hard to solve / lack of
> bandwidth / lack of input / variety of other reasons, not because no one is
> tracking them. Adding a tracking bug wont magically fix the bug / help in
> the getting it to closure. But tracking bug serves useful especially for
> anyone new to see what are problem areas, how can I help fix / test / not
> report duplicate bugs etc.
>>> > > Most, if not all Indic issues would be tagged with i18n keyword on
>> > bugzilla.
>>> > >
>> > Yes, adding the i18n keyword to an issue in Bugzilla will help bring it
>> > to the attention of the localisation team.
>> >
> Another point, Not all Indic wikipedia related issues are i18n issues,
> though there might be heavy overlap. There are site requests like changing
> logo,namespace, installing extensions <<whatever>>. The point to note is,
> when someone does these things in any Indic community(which already have
> tiny community), please keep the community widely posted / document these
> somewhere.Not just issues, but solutions/workarounds, gadgets used, things
> like abuse filter rules(if any) and its rationale behind etc. This will
> help someone else in your community(who may come years later) to follow up
> even if you retire / had forgotten. Fortunately Tamil Wiki community did
> that from the beginning(at least the major ones,if not everything) in the
> form of a page[1] and I was able to go through,know the past issues,update
> it after almost 2 years! I felt a tracking bug might be easier to track on
> issues than a page, so I just created one.
>> > Thanks for mentioning this problem, Srikanth.
> This problem is not restricted to bugzilla. This may even happen in say in
> translation or anything, where only a subset (ideally 1-2 in a community of
> 10) involve in the activities and do not document / pass over the knowledge
> properly.Smaller Wikipedias must not rely on select individual on anything
> so much that they become extinct/dormant after their wiki-time
> (Insert story of Bishnupriya Manipuri)  I hope Shiju is reading and might
> be able to relate to it / research on solutions :)
> [1] http://tawp.in/r/3hl
> -- Regards

Thanks for the reply and for giving more perspective on these issues,
Srikanth.  I know that other people who work actively on localisation
and internationalisation, and on helping nurture smaller Wikimedia
projects, can speak with more experience and knowledge than I can.  But
I do want to mention here the language support teams


which are a structure that could help with some of the problems that you

Sumana Harihareswara
Volunteer Development Coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation

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