On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Hisham <his...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On Mar 7, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Anirudh Bhati wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Hisham <his...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> Nothing is conducted solely by India Program - and hence I said
>> "supported."  Everything is conducted by the community - sometimes under
>> the aegis of the Chapter and sometimes independently.  The support that we
>> have provided varies - from getting the actual event fixed up to providing
>> presentation material to interested community members to participating in
>> these events.
> Can this be clearly specified in the report?  That is more helpful than
> simply "supported".  For instance, when you say "Supported the community
> to get a venue in Guwahati University", it would help us understand more if
> you could tell us how.
> Please refer this 
> mail<http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2012-January/006599.html>

Thanks for the link, Hisham.  Can you please have you staff include a
summary along with the appropriate links?  Thanks.

> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:45 PM, CherianTinu Abraham <
> tinucher...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Pranav,
>> In India, it is extremely difficult to hairline separate who has done
>> which event. - Chapter, Community and WMF India Programs.
> I agree it's not possible to do that, but it is entirely possible to list
> out the work done in specific.  This enhances our accountability and
> transparency towards the community.
>> Let us take the case of the Trichy event, the request came to a community
>> member Rsrikanth to the chapter. Nitika was actively involved along with me
>> and Naveen. The chapter signed the MoU and supplied some goodies. Nitika
>> was actively involved in coaching Sohan, a chapter member and Rsrikanth.
>> One must not also forget that both Hisham & Nitika are also chapter
>> members.
> Fact: Nitika is a paid employee of the WMF India Programs and is not a
> chapter/community volunteer.
> Anyone who contributes - in whatever manner - is a community member.  All
> of us in the India Program team have the freedom to do whatever we want to
> in our free time.  fyi: all of us contribute in our personal, voluntary
> capacity as well as work for the movement in our official capacity.  fyi:
> it's not part of the job description.

Yes, no one has disputed community membership.  But when an employee/paid
contractor edits during work hours or within the purview of their
contractual agreement with the Foundation, that is paid and not volunteer
work.  This is not something I enjoy pointing out over and over again, but
perhaps you should try and see where I am coming from.

>> Another event in Chennai (Jaya eng college) , where Subha led, his travel
>> expenses was reimbursed by the Chapter, Subha is a Chapter SIG Chair .. The
>> event is supported by Hisham & Nitika too. Subha is also an India Programs
>> executive.
> Fact:  Subhashish, former volunteer, and now paid consultant with India
> Programs.
> Much water has flown beneath this bridge, but I am disappointed with the
> suggestion that someone becomes a "former" volunteer just because they join
> the India Program team.  See earlier point.

I think you will find that I have clarified myself above, if you care to
read.  Even then, a paid consultant spending their free time doing
volunteer work can still not be equated with a regular volunteer
contributor.  This is not a condemnation, but a statement of fact.

>> I actively organize Bangalore Meetups and support several others ..
>> Should I be worrying whether I am doing as a chapter member, board member
>> or a community member?
> By a matter of principle, chapter and community volunteers are just...
> volunteers.  Paid consultants are hired to executive specific programs, and
> hence the results of their work and reports should be presented with
> clarity.  Simply "supporting" something does not clarify the extent of
> their involvement.
> The work that we are doing is actually supporting communities.  The
> healthiest way of us doing our jobs is to work closely (and in most cases,
> individually with community members) and help them in various ways - and
> make sure that the individual community members are front and centre of the
> initiative - as is right.  As in the mail I shared earlier on Guwahati,  or
> indeed in the "Nature of Support column on this 
> page<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Program/Outreach_Programs/Outreach_Sessions/Feb>,
> we document them and share them through wider channels.  In other cases,
> they are discussed on village pumps or individual talk pages or on chats or
> whatever manner that the respective community member feels most comfortable
> - and we leave it at that.  A lot of our community members do not have the
> experience and confidence to engage publicly or take initiatives.  We will
> continue to work quietly with them.
> The purpose behind my monthly newsletter is to try and document a varied
> list of the things we do - not from the point of view of documenting every
> last detail - but to provide a summary and useful links.

I have been hearing this for a while.  Let me remind you that every member
of the community has the right to make you accountable for the work you
claim you do.  So there is no point if you are going to prepare half-done
summaries and post them as a historical record of your work on meta. Please
remember that I am asking for detailed reports, not saying that you have
not done what you claim.  Thanks.

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