I am also not a Chapter member, but for some reason, I am not particularly
perturbed about reports, activities and so on. I think Tejas' suggestions
are excellent, and made in the positive spirit of building a sense of
community amongst Wikimedians in India, be they chapter, foundation, user,
contributor, coder and who knows what other plethora of categories of
Wikimedians I haven't listed.

I sensed a feeling of exclusion being expressed in the flurry of mails
following the announcement of staff appointments. It seemed that, whether
explicitly or not, some people find the idea of 'outsiders' being appointed
for Wikimedia tasks somewhat disconcerting. As can be expected, some
express their discomfort quite coherently, while others are either less
explicit or more tangential.

It's really not much different from the greeting that Indians get when they
immigrate into some foreign country – resentment, discomfort, etc. Our new
community members have just arrived with a lot more publicity and spotlight
than the average, who typically gets no more than a 'hi, newbie' greeting
on making a first edit, and for all I know not even that on making a first
code contribution.

To me, what this event signifies is a new phase of Wikimedia in India, when
innovative and perhaps revolutionary new ideas on: how Wikipedia will look
(sound, feel), how content will be added, what content will be added, how
new media archives will be created, edited, updated etc etc; will all find
expression as well as the wherewithal (that's a big word for 'cold cash')
to happen.

As I posted the other day, it was an eye-opener to me to find I could
organise a project to work with some current digital or quasi-digital
archive organiser, get the content digitised, categorised and made
available through Wikipedia, and have the work done through enthusiastic
young volunteers who can actually use that project as a university
submission as well as get some money to compensate for their ope, not to
mention some hardware or whatever is dedicated to the project. I hope that
I can start the ball rolling soon with some likely collaborators, then
announce the project through the Web and on lists like this, tie up with
volunteers, and execute this summer, under the guidance of experts who
understand the details.

And I hope that in other places, more people will start acting in this
direction as well.

And more than that, I hope that other people will start conceptualising
other innovations, that might have remained dreams had this window not been
open. I don't claim any monopoly on either ideas or of implementing them.
Wikipedia is growing in new and exciting ways, and it looks to me like we
all have a chance to be part of driving that change. Simply.

This does not mean that we are forced to be part of every aspect of that
change, either. It is up to each of us to be what we can be. I have seen a
lot of organisations, but hardly any have been smart enough to let people
do what they do best. That's much more worth applauding than looking for
faults in the process or in the ways that people express themselves – which
also has its place, when it is meant constructively.

-- 
Vickram
Fool On The Hill
"The cameras were all around. We've got you taped; you're in the play.
Here's your I.D. (Ideal for identifying one and all.)
Invest your life in the memory bank; ours the interest and we thank you."
Jethro Tull: A Passion Play (1973)
On Feb 14, 2013 8:25 AM, "Tejas jain" <teju2frie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> First, I am not a chapter member. As a member of mailing list I have few
> suggestions to resolve issue.
>
> 1. Authorized person can publish ,"Activity list", "Expense list",
> "Financial supporters list" & "Maintenance expenditure list" on chapter
> site & share the link (Yes, specific link for report. Not just "is on site"
> statement) on this mail chain. (I wonder why this simple solution is not
> considered yet!)
>
> 2. People should stop making climes in chapter's name & stop all kind of
> fights till above lists are given by chapter.
>
> 3. Chapter should workout on financial transparency (I mean how public can
> verify it) to avoid such issue in future.
>
> 4. Keep in mind that finance is a critical issue & people may get negative
> message through bad fights like this.
>
> Thanks,
> Tejas jain
>
>
> 2013/2/13 Arnav Sonara <sonara.ar...@gmail.com>
>
>> On Feb 13, 2013 12:08 AM, "Abhishek Suryawanshi" <
>> i.abhishek.suryawan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> I understand this might be a serious issue, but I trust all India
>> mailing list is definitely not the platform for discussion.
>> >
>> >
>> > India Community deserves to know answers. At one end Chapter is
>> criticizing CIS continuously on other hand its accepting financial help
>> from them and I am wondering whats wrong in acknowledging it! If someone is
>> helping then its ethical and normal to acknowledge it?
>>
>> Even If and when CIS funds the Chapter then it does not mean that one
>> cannot criticize the other.
>>
>> Criticism is necessary in community, but baseless allegations a big NO.
>>
>> When Srikanth says that all info about Chapter will be made public, we
>> have to take word for it.
>>
>> >
>> > Its might be beginning of new era - where Chapter is focusing on
>> outreach and activities events and CIS taking care of financial needs.
>>
>> I still quite don't understand what you mean. But I would like to say
>> that outreach has been done even when chapter didn't exist, but since its
>> formation it has been a lot easier at organisational layer to move things
>> forward.
>>
>> > Its good to see its already started..
>> >
>> >> we will have to move beyond the question to get the answer.
>> >
>> >
>> > Chapter should be ready to share answers.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Abhishek Suryawanshi,
>> > On Behalf of Wikipedia Club Pune
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Abhijith Jayanthi <
>> abhijithsince1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Guys,
>> >>
>> >> I understand this might be a serious issue, but I trust all India
>> mailing list is definitely not the platform for discussion. Please continue
>> this conversation privately, also - wanted to check on couple of points:
>> >>
>> >> (1) Do we have a policy of permitted issues to be discussed over the
>> all India Mailing list - if not, there is a necessity to work on it.
>> >> (2) Disclosures and grievance handling procedures should be shared
>> with each member upon joining and the mechanism should be followed.
>> >>
>> >> Again, pointing fingers or rephrasing the issue itself is not the
>> solution - we will have to move beyond the question to get the answer.
>> >>
>> >> - abhijith
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: Srikanth Ramakrishnan <srik.r...@wikimedia.in>
>> >>
>> >> To: Wikimedia India Community list <
>> wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, 12 February 2013 11:31 PM
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] why to donate
>> >>
>> >> Membership under processing is differnt from memvership alreadt
>> processed. INDI-31 is non existant and will remain so.
>> >>
>> >> As for CIS funding, you still havwn't said where you have got the
>> "information" from.
>> >> The Chapter has alwaya made things public and will xontinue to do so.
>> If the CIS funds us, it will be madw public.
>> >>
>> >> n Tuesday, February 12, 2013, Abhishek Suryawanshi <
>> i.abhishek.suryawan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Srikanth,
>> >> > I appreciate you keep a check of the Chapter Membership List. But at
>> the same time I guess you will also respect the Chapter President's word. I
>> have had a talk with Sudhanwa (President,Wikimedia India Chapter) and just
>> two days back he informed me that my Chapter-membership is being proceed. I
>> would like you to have or increase your communications with other EC
>> members (or at-least with President) before claiming me or anybody else
>> with allegations such as a 'Cheat' :)
>> >> >
>> >> > P.S : How does it affects my query about CIS funding chapter's
>> travel for Board meeting or not ?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Abhishek Suryawanshi,
>> >> > On Behalf of Wikipedia Club Pune
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
>> srik.r...@wikimedia.in> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Just to  inform you that Abhishek Suryawanshi, who claims to be a
>> >> > Chapter Member with membership number INDI-31 is NOT a member. The
>> >> > entry currently doesn't exist in our membership list. Mr. Suryawanshi
>> >> > was a member of the Chapter during the earlier Financial Year and did
>> >> > NOT renew his membership. I hope the community is now aware of what
>> >> > kind of people it is dealing with.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 2/12/13, Abhishek Suryawanshi <i.abhishek.suryawan...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> *@Karthik - *
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *If you have a question, you can ask it in the form of a question *
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why Chapter is denying/ignoring fact flight tickets for members are
>> covered
>> >> >> by third party?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  *instead **of making unsubstantiated claims on a public mailing
>> list,*
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Do you mean to say 'CIS is supporting' part is unsubstantiated?
>> Then please
>> >> >> state who is covering travel expenses?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *which is frankly unproductive since it requires us to spend time
>> to send
>> >> >>> out clarifications.  *
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Could you please elaborate 'unproductive' term and 'sending out
>> >> >> clarification' part? What clarification is given? On contrary You
>> are
>> >> >> putting up efforts to blur whole situation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *@Sudhanwa - *
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *> 2)Major Chapter Expenses such as Flight Tickets for AGM are
>> covered by
>> >> >>> CIS.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Absolutely wrong information you have go*t.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> AGM word is wrong and Board Meeting is correct, right? Please
>> correct if
>> >> >> wrong.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *> I am waiting for someone to answer simple query - How much money
>> is
>> >> >>> required
>> >> >>> > for next year activities? and Which activities are planned?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Grant requests are always on public wiki and the numbers are always
>> >> >>> open to all for discussions. You will find these details in the
>> >> >>> upcoming requests. Asaf has already indicated the same on the list.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> If you have any activities planned, please let us know. We will
>> plan
>> >> >>> the resources accordingly (budgets, people etc) Same request also
>> goes
>> >> >>> to all the people in the community. Please let us know what you
>> want
>> >> >>> to do. We are here to support you in whatever best way we can. Do
>> not
>> >> >>> hesitate to ask for suppo*rt.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It seems you are missing out whole point, I am talking about fixed
>> expenses
>> >> >> and 'possible' activities. Like Board meeting travel expenses.
>> Which can be
>> >> >> covered and are (already) getting covered by third parties like CIS.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So it makes more sense to spend volunteer efforts on outreach kind
>> of
>> >> >> activities than running for money? specially when third parties are
>> >> >> interested in supporting financially?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When CIS is wrong, there is hard criticism, and when they support
>> >> >> financially - I guess there could be minimum acknowledgement?.
>> >> >> I think CIS may help chapter to cover other expenses also if
>> needed. So
>> >> >> Chapter can focus on productive outreach and activities?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *@Dhaval - *
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *> 1)Chapter is having 1.5 Lack+ Rupees in existing account. *
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> *And what do you think could be done by that HUGE AMOUNT of 1.5+
>> Indian
>> >> >>> Rupees?*
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> *I think chapter has its office in Bangalore and based on my
>> experience,
>> >> >>> I know that any property requires paying off few bills, e.g.
>> electricity,
>> >> >>> water, property tax, tel/internet (if it has got) and these things
>> are
>> >> >>> not
>> >> >>> so cheap in Today's India as they were in my days of teen (20 years
>> >> >>> ago).*
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That is base amount, Someone from Chapter might be able to answer
>> exact
>> >> >> fixed expenses? Its always easy to find 'in-kind' donations as
>> compared to
>> >> >> cash. Its difficult specially when tax exemption is missing. And it
>> might
>> >> >> need extra efforts to run for money.
>> >> >> And why? There are people/organization which are taking care of
>> expenses
>> >> >> already!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> These expenses can be covered easily if there is clarity on 'what is
>> >> >> needed'.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I have already explained 'in-kind' donation concept, Please see :
>> >> >> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Srikanth Ramakrishnan
>> >> Member of the Executive Committee
>> >> Wikimedia Chapter [India]
>> >>
>> >> Donate to the Wikimedia India Chapter today
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>> >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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