Hi Gerard ,

Sorry to interrupt the discussion .

Small correction

//I  added that Mr Modi is the incumbent prime minister of Gujarati state
in Wikidata.//

Modi is actually incumbent Chief Minister(not Prime minister )  of Gujarat
(Not Gujarati - Which is a language )  .

-Sibi




On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hoi,
> I am a Wikimedian and have been for a very long time. Check my record and
> you will find that I have always been involved in both language support and
> projects like Wiktionary, OmegaWiki, Wikidata, Reasonator.
>
> Today new functionality has gone life on Wikidata that was expected for
> over half a year. Because of this the Marwari language is now supported in
> Wikidata. I blogged about this [1]. Other languages will follow soon. This
> policy was discussed with people from India in the past and they saw it as
> an appropriate strategy to start building information resources in a
> language prior to a Wikipedia or another WMF project.
>
> India is big and it is foolish to forget context and not seek support and
> second opinions when people in India are likely to benefit directly. On the
> other hand, you can bring a horse to water, you cannot make it drink. When
> I blogged about an enhancement to the search functionality on the Telugu
> Wikipedia [2], it should be obvious that added value will only be found
> when people add labels in Telugu to Wikidata. It is gratifying that labels
> have been added. This is not an experiment as traffic details from the
> Tamil and Persian Wikipedia indicate it as a successful strategy.
>
> I am not involved in Indian politics. Obviously. I am however improving
> information about the current members of the Lok Sabha. I  added that Mr
> Modi is the incumbent prime minister of Gujarati state in Wikidata. I have
> blogged about one member of the Lok Sabha and I am likely to do so again.
> My objective is to get labels in all the languages of India for all of them
> and I will not be the one doing that. My hope is that information is
> readily available on Indian politics and its politicians.
>
> What we will gain out of it is a better understanding on how such projects
> work. A much bigger challenge are the elections of South Africa. What we
> may gain out of it is that Wikidata becomes a platform where this type of
> information is available. Much of the information in Wikidata finds its
> origin in Wikipedia. It is because of the hard work in the English
> Wikipedia that we are able to add information. The point however is that
> information can become available in every other language. That is not an
> experiment, it is a fact.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
>
> [1]
> http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2014/04/wikidata-marwari-language-from-india.html
> [2]
> http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2014/04/wikipedia-search-for-in-telugu.html
>
>
> On 30 April 2014 10:00, Ravishankar <ravidre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> As I engaged in the discussion regarding CIS grant proposal for the last
>> two weeks, I had this recurring theme echoed from various corners.
>>
>> "India is big. India is diverse. India is unlike other countries. So,
>> experiments (call it innovation) need to be done".
>>
>> For the love of Wiki God, may I request all the global people  to stop
>> experiementing with India?
>>
>> *People from outside have no clue of India. And the people they hire in
>> India have no clue of the Wikimedia movement. *
>>
>> Ultimately, it has become like few blind people describing an elephant.
>>
>> Heck, all the community members know it is an elephant and know it takes
>> time to grow an elephant. The growth of an elephant can only be on par with
>> the ecosystem within which it is present.
>>
>> No amount of systematic intervention is going to change a donkey into an
>> elephant.
>>
>> I am tired of seeing experiments being done in naive and tiny Indic
>> communities and the "lessons learnt" being implemented in Brazil, Egypt and
>> Arab world. Be it Google or be it WMF or its avatars.
>>
>> May I request that you do your experiments elsewhere for a change and
>> implement things that work for sure in India organically?
>>
>> The reason why English Wikipedia community flourishes in India, Tamil /
>> Bengali / Malayalam communities do well relatively are complete socio
>> economic and political. No amount of intervention is going to change this
>> in other parts of the country. This is like providing rice bags to the poor
>> of the third world without fixing their primary socio political issues.
>>
>> Wikipedia doesn't exist in isolation in a web ecosystem. It is the
>> culmination of scholarly activity of highest order that you can imagine.
>> When languages that are official languages of states and countries, have
>> two decades long web presence, have a thriving local print / visual media
>> and academic network have a problem growing their Wikipedias, I can't
>> understand what the h*ll is being done in Wikipedias that are not even out
>> of incubators, Wikipedias that don't even have a writing system in order.
>>
>> Few years back Google dumped paid translated articles done with the aid
>> machine translation tools in many Indic language communities and sermoned
>> us that these will bring us a community. Now, WMF's programs are sermoning
>> us that their attempt at seeding communities will bring articles for us. I
>> am 100% sure that both approaches are futile.
>>
>> I really miss the once thriving Indian Wiki community that organized the
>> world's biggest Wiki conference.
>>
>> I really miss the cross-wiki activism like
>>
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Tinucherian_and_Shijualex/Wiki_Community_development_in_India_and_newsletter/Report
>>
>> I really miss the spirit of the Wiki community getting replaced by
>> confusions brought because of top-down paid interventions.
>>
>> The only hope I have is that at least few mature communities will take
>> stock of the situation, stay autonomous and self-sustaining as they were
>> and continue to enjoy the pleasure of Wiki activity instead of getting
>> drowned in numbers, goals, targets and dream targets.
>>
>> Ravi
>>
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>>
>
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