Sorry, I may be getting this wrong or missing something. 


I do not see any query from Ravi regarding Tulu stats, did I miss something?


Ravi, could you clarify as well please.


Pavanaja, I am sorry, again I might be wrong in my understanding here as
well on your abilities. You are free to correct me, please share your
profile which I can read through if you do not mind.


Just was wondering from your email domain name (vishvakannada), that I
thought you are an expert on Kannada. Is Tulu also something that comes
under the same remit. Again, I am a layman, sorry if I am getting it wrong
and you are free to correct my wrong understanding.




[] On Behalf Of Pavanaja
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 12:03 PM
To: 'Wikimedia India Community list'
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Outcome of CIS work in Kannada Wikipedia


Dear Ansuman,


Please go through the thread fully. Ravi asked a question about Tulu and I
answered that.


Regarding your statement that the stats are overall from 2007 and not for
one month only - Please read my email carefully. The first stats, ie, total
147 articles is for the period 2007 to March 2014. The current figure that I
mentioned is 284. This growth happened in just one month as I already wrote.






[] On Behalf Of ansuman
Sent: 18 May 2014 21:06
To: Wikimedia India Community list
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Outcome of CIS work in Kannada Wikipedia


The Subject line says "Outcome of CIS work in Kannada Wikipedia". Why the
stats for Tulu ?

No wonder, they always try to cover up with something else!!!

Anyway in the stats, those numbers are overall from 2007, not just one



On 18 May 2014 20:45, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
<> > wrote:

Editors with 10 edit count? 
That's nothing great. Half of them might have edited from the workshop
itself and then disappeared. Also, edit counts are never considered a good
measure of success. 
Are there any real metrics being used? 

On May 18, 2014 7:00 PM, "Pavanaja U B" <
<> > wrote:

Dear Ravi,


1.Tulu Wikipedia outreach programs and outcome:


Please look at the work plan here and the stats mentioned -

Pay little attention to these numbers (excerpt from the work-plan above)-  


The current stats, as of March 2014 stands like this:

*         147 articles including categories, templates, and talk pages.

*         31 total number of editors; including those who have done just one

*         8 editors with more than 10 edit counts.


Now please take a look at the stats at this page -
&cat=0&wiki=incubatorwiki&listpages=on#distribution_201404. I am extracting
the same data for current -

*         284 articles including categories, templates, and talk pages.

*         41 total number of editors; including those who have done just one

*         18 editors with more than 10 edit counts.

These figures definitely point to the fact that the workshops are not wasted
efforts. These changes have happened in just one month. In the stats page
you may also notice that  Tulu Wikipedia was almost dormant from Sep 2009
till April 2014 with some occasional activity spikes in between. Let us hope
the new set of editors who have come in will actively keep contributing to
Tulu Wikipedia. Optimism is not a bad idea after all.


2. Wikipedia in UG education program at Christ University Bangalore:


It is true that a spike can be seen in the stats for Kannada Wikipedia. But
the program will be continuing this year also. Students will continue to
write for Kannada Wikipedia. This academic year they will also add content
to Kannada Wikisource. I have personally interacted with many students.
There are quite a good number of students who are passionate about enriching
Kannada language and bringing latest knowledge into Kannada by way of adding
articles to Kannada Wikipedia. Nurturing those students will help not only
Kannada Wikipedia but also Kannada language and people in general. Again, I
would emphasis, let us be optimistic.  


Thanks and regards,




<> ] On Behalf Of
Sent: 17 May 2014 16:40
To: Wikimedia India Community list
Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Outcome of CIS work in Kannada Wikipedia



Any community member here from Kannada Wikipedia?

I would like to understand the outcome of CIS work there.

lists one of the lessons learned as follows:

//Single-session, general-audience outreach has negligible impact everywhere
(for example, just giving a single talk about Wikipedia to whoever shows
up-the conversion rate to editors is tiny, and yet we keep doing it".//

(Do give a full read of that whole section 1.3 Lessons learned)

Yet, CIS seems to be repeating sich negligible impact outreach programs many
times in March and April 2014. This includes Tulu workshops where there is
active editor community at all. 

To quote Asaf again:

//So just what has the Foundation learned about the criteria for funding
successful activities? Bartov first talked about a fundamental prerequisite:

"The sine qua non of most programs is a core of self-motivating active
editors. Most of the things you want to do, most of the things chapters in
the global north are doing, depend on this core. It can be as small as four
or five people, but those people need to be actual active editors ... who
edit because they like it, they enjoy editing Wikipedia or Commons, they get
it, and they are inherently committed to our principles like NPOV; not
people who are editing because there's a contest on and they want to win the

"Where that core doesn't exist, it's very hard to deploy any other type of
program. If you want [a GLAM partnership] with the National Museum of
Cameroon ... how are you going to deliver on what you promise the museum if
you don't have local editors who will do the work - write the articles, show
up to meet the curators. So this is the big, big challenge for which we
don't have an answer: how do you grow such a core ... in a certain country?
... we're now cautious about active investment where there is not an active
community-although it's still possible if you give us a really great

The only outcome of such initiatives seem to be PR material like this:

where Pavanaja quotes as follows:

//There was a significant increase in the number of editors after 500
students of Christ University, Bangalore, were trained in editing at a
workshop held in January this year.//

And when you look at Kannada Wikipedia stats, the user activity has returned
to pre-education programme levels within a month

So, I would like to understand why the wheel is getting reinvented again and
again with an insane budget besides documented evidence of WMF's learning on

Stop doing paid outreach.







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