Ok.. so explain to me why the chapter is not able to provide funding for
viable projects. Do remember that the qualifiers for funding are
essentially the same; they have to pass the requirements of the WMF. When
the chapter has its own independent funding, it can allocate as it sees fit.

I seriously do not understand what drives you. I only notice negative
attitudes, I do not understand how you think a chapter should/could
operate. The only thing I notice is how you blame others for the woes of
the Indian chapter and as a consequence attack and thereby destroy
opportunities that become lost for now for India,

On 8 September 2014 15:22, Ravishankar <ravidre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> * Chapter, user groups and online wikimedia project communities need not
> be mutually exclusive.
> * A user group need not be created just for the sake of it without clear
> idea of the problem that it intends to solve and which cannot be solved by
> other already available means.
> For example, forming a Tamil Wikimedia user group in SriLanka will make
> sense as we have legal and financial restrictions of spending India
> chapter's money in other countries. But, there is no need felt to start a
> Tamil Wikimedia user group in Tamilnadu.
> Will a global Tamil user group like
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_kaj_Libera_Scio help?
> May be. But, it isn't a pressing need. Whenever we come up with a project
> or grant request, it is well supported already by WMF and Wikimedia India.
> Please also note that for a country like India, a registered and legal
> entity like chapter is very essential. Because, without a letter pad and
> official seal, we can't enter many places. And without such entities, we
> can't conduct mega projects with big budgets (Individuals who receive money
> on behalf of communities or user groups will face tax audit issues. And the
> process needs to be repeatedly done every time by a new individual)
> * A user group will help when they operate across multiple projects and
> regions. For example, GLAM volunteers and Mediawiki hackers. But, I see
> this as a convenience as to organize the volunteers themselves formally
> than as a requirement to operate outside other entities like chapter,
> especially when they are willing to support them.
> * Please note that many of the current and waiting to be approved user
> groups are just incubators for future chapters. We will be going backwards
> if we dissolve the chapter and split into user groups.
> * Yes, Wikimedia India chapter could have fared better. But, I wouldn't
> blame it or any single person or EC. Like any Wikimedia project, it can
> only become better with more participation, collaboration and emergence of
> natural leadership. For a complex country like India, it will take time. 7
> members of EC are not super humans and they are not supposed to do all the
> work by themselves. Any such expectation set by themselves or from the
> members should be reconsidered. In my personal experience interacting with
> the chapter, they have always supported us in all ways possible. Only if
> the chapter stands in the way of any aspiring member / community's plan, it
> should be highlighted and discussed.
> * The chapter is already as democratic as it could be by design. In fact,
> most of it's problems stem from that and not because of lack of democracy.
> Other players in the movement like WMF or their working partners like CIS
> don't have this issue while chapters have to face this issue. So, it is
> unfair to judge chapter's performance without considering this crucial
> aspect.
> * Whatever be the structural setup we might agree, it is not going to
> solve all issues. We need to think with it and also outside the box.
> * I am surprised that no one highlighted the impact of non-community
> organizations like CIS in the movement.
> Once, I asked an active Indian Wikimedian who initiated many chapter
> events and then started collaborating with CIS, why he made this transition.
> His answer:
> "Chapter doesn't give us money. CIS gives money".
> And there you see, how in the name of language community strategy of WMF
> through CIS has bifurcated the community.
> This, in my view, is a bigger issue that needs to be addressed.
> Ravi
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