My two bits. Transparency is one issue and its good that some one asked about it and very good that the CIS is answering the concerns. However, the tone here appears to be that for every decision about the organisation of a CIS event, consensus is a must with the community. That is not so. The CIS A2K project can take decisions about whom to invite as per their decided line of reasoning.
The line of questioning here seems to be like that of a witch hunt. As one who has organised many events in a lifetime, let me tell you, organisers are expected to do their best in all aspects, and be open about it. But it does not mean that they do things YOUR way or that you get to decide what is right or wrong. If some one got left out and you know whom it is say so outright and ask why that person didn't figure. Don't make insinuations. Transparency is there. You asked, they answered. Reports are often delayed, though they shouldn't be as far as possible. I could point out a number of grants taken by Wikimedians where the reports have not been generated or they are a slipshod placeholder, where accounts are not submitted for months or are absolutely unsatisfactory. Where the outcomes promised in grant proposal are inadequately met or conveniently avoided mention of. A conference expenditure of Rs 2 Lakhs is not exorbitant and you know that. Your statement declaiming it so doesn't make it. I request that such questions and accountability definitely be carried out but not in the way that is being done here. It reeks of bad faith. And for sake of Conflict of Interest disclosure let me say that I have been called twice to CIS as resource person for a staff selection meet some years ago and for TTT last year. My transportation expenses, food and hotel stay for TTT was borne by CIS. In the staff selection meet, I stayed with my brother and ate at his place, CIS only paid from transportation. I received no remuneration for these two events. I have NOT received any grant from CIS or WMF in my name ever. Though Sunil did present me a set of CIS pamphlets the first time I met him. Those who don't know me, I am a retired army officer, editing since 2006 on en:WP and my name is User:AshLin. On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Abhinav srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Netha, > > I had no idea about you neither I am directing at you. This is for other > Wikimedias residing in India. > > Sorry for the inconveniences. > > Abhinav > > On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:18 PM Netha Hussain, <nethahuss...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> My response to Abhinav's question, just to clarify about my attendance at >> WMCON 18 : >> >> 2.) I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the >> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was >> invited? I wish to hear. >> >> I am an Indian Wikimedian and I was selected by the WMF to participate >> in Wikimedia Conference 2018. I attended in my capacity as a volunteer and >> delivered the Diversity statement and led the diversity discussion >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Documentation/Movement_Strategy_track/Day_2> >> there. I was not informed about this Bangalore conference conducted by the >> CIS, and I do not expect to be invited because I live in a different >> country, and flying me to India would have been very expensive. >> Additionally, my role in WMCON 2018 was to talk specifically about >> Diversity, which is not exclusively an India-related topic. I did not >> represent any affiliate from India, either. >> >> The complete list of participants who attended WMCON 18 can be found here >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Participants%27_List> >> . >> >> Regards >> Netha >> >> >> On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 at 13:28, Abhinav srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hello Tanveer and Subhashish, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank You, Tanveer for acknowledging, responding, apologizing and most >>> importantly assuring on transparency. >>> >>> >>> >>> I still have a few concerns and I wish to write back. I would appreciate >>> if I can hear back. >>> >>> >>> >>> 1.) Your proposal also mentions on inviting Experienced Indian >>> Wikimedians. While, as per your response I do not find any Wikimedian >>> attending in this category. I would like to record a suggestion. Bengaluru >>> is one of the highly populated cities and also comprising a high number of >>> migrant populations. In the upcoming events, you can invite Experience >>> Wikimedians from other languages groups which still do not have a User >>> Group and are based in Bengaluru. They may not be attending the Wikimedia >>> Conference in Berlin, they may not be even from your focused languages. The >>> idea is very similar to the statement put forward by your organization and >>> Wikimedia India during the Wiki Conference India, “While some communities >>> have dynamic leaders and enough community level activity…….this cannot be >>> said for all communities.” >>> >>> >>> 2.) I am not sure if all those selected by WMF to participate in the >>> Wikimedia Conference 2018 were invited. Are you sure every one of them was >>> invited? I wish to hear. >>> >>> >>> 3.) Once you complete the Meta page, I would request you to please >>> share on this thread. I would encourage you and your team to document as >>> much as you can about your activities on Meta. >>> >>> >>> 4.) It is already to my understanding that the absence of your >>> communication manager has led to defaults in your newsletter. I would like >>> to re-iterate as documented on the other mail thread, Wikimedia Communities >>> are voluntary driven, some staff should devote time and keep sharing. This >>> is just a suggestion. >>> >>> >>> >>> @ Subhashish: Sorry to cross-post a bit from the other thread, I >>> happened to miss your last message since another message popped in within >>> 10 minutes and I couldn’t distinguish. I believe putting comments about >>> your personal experiences at Wikimedia Movements wasn’t the best sportive >>> thing one could do. Since those were put on a public thread, so, on a >>> public thread, I would like to *apologize*. I still may remain >>> unconvinced on not having bandwidth, reports and other issues, but, Yes, I >>> shouldn’t have brought your personal story. >>> >>> Also, I advise Odia User Group to be more active in documenting about >>> such works on their Meta page and Village Pump. Our communities are too big >>> in nature, they often get sorted into two haves – one who dedicate more >>> time to the movement and remain known faces amongst each other, two- who >>> edit but devote less time to activities but they also put their >>> contributions. There are numerous such silent editors in every community. >>> Please take this only to be a suggestion, no negative remarks here. >>> >>> >>> >>> @Satdeep : I was expecting to hear from you. As Tanveer, points out on >>> having spent roughly Rs 2 lakhs, this is amount is much more than that >>> spent on to endorse a scholarship to Wikimania. But that’s not my >>> question, I think we should refrain from that on this thread. You were a >>> part of the conference were no heeds to transparency and reporting was made >>> (even the CIS-A2K staff accepts this). Secondly, you hold a chair in AffCom >>> and also a WMF staff (yes part-time). I am of the opinion that neutrality >>> has somewhere been disturbed at your end. A personal freindly suggestion. >>> >>> >>> >>> Abhinav >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:11 PM Subhashish Panigrahi < >>> psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Tanveer for this frank clarification. >>>> >>>> @Abhinav srivastava <abhinav...@gmail.com>, I didn't check earlier >>>> that there is a point concerning me. So just a small clarification - my >>>> point was not to show how A2K organized the event in a non-transparent way >>>> but to share the fact that I was a participant and did not know very well >>>> what went behind organizing the event. Also, I participated in my capacity >>>> of a rep of Odia Wikimedians User Group who happened to live in Bangalore >>>> (so it was logistically cheaper even though we didn't go to WMCON this >>>> year). For the record, Tanveer did share with me about this factor and the >>>> second factor — that our UG will be eligible next year to send a rep — for >>>> inviting me. My participation was not in the capacity of a former employee >>>> of CIS. :) >>>> >>>> Subhashish >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:59 PM Tanveer Hasan <hasanrememb...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Abhinav, >>>>> >>>>> Please find our responses below: >>>>> >>>>> ==Conference== >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> (a) Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this >>>>> summer?: >>>>> >>>>> Yes, we organised a WMCON India 2018 as per our proposal [1] that was >>>>> submitted to the FDC in March 2017. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (b) How were the delegates selected and which communities were >>>>> invited? >>>>> >>>>> The delegates were not selected by CIS. Participants invited/selected >>>>> by WMF to participate in WMCON 2018 [2] in Berlin were invited to this >>>>> meeting. User Group representatives who will be participating in WMCON >>>>> 2019 >>>>> (residing in Bangalore) were invited to participate as well. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (c) For all those communities who were invited (based on your >>>>> response to part b) was an official notification sent via village pump, >>>>> mailing list, reaching out to User Group representatives? >>>>> >>>>> As the participants were already selected by another affiliate of WMF, >>>>> we did not want to reinvent the process and hence sent them personal >>>>> emails >>>>> as invite to this conference. We apologise for not sending out the event >>>>> agenda and details about the event on mailing list and village pump of all >>>>> the Indic communities. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (d) Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the >>>>> process? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Our intention was not to be ‘non transparent’, the participant list >>>>> was put up by WMDE Conference organising team and we invited only those >>>>> people whose name featured in the official participant list. Sunil >>>>> Abraham, >>>>> Executive Director, CIS and Ananth Subray, Program Associate, A2K, >>>>> Subhashish Panigrahi, representing Odia User group and Dr. U.B. Pavanaja, >>>>> representing Karavali Wikimedians User Group were the only participants >>>>> who >>>>> were present whose name was not on the Participants list. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (e) When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not maintaining >>>>> transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d of the question >>>>> is >>>>> NO)? >>>>> >>>>> I would like to reiterate that our intention was not to be >>>>> ‘non-transparent’. A2K team apologises for not sending out adequate >>>>> information to communities and requisite channels of communication. We >>>>> will >>>>> strive to improve our communication with the community for all of our >>>>> events. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the >>>>> community? >>>>> >>>>> There is a meta page that had been created but has not been completed. >>>>> We will priorotise the reporting of this event and revert with relevant >>>>> updates. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (g) How much funds were involved? >>>>> >>>>> We used an approximate amount of INR.2 lakh for this event. Major >>>>> expenses were incurred in arranging transport and hospitality. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (h) What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff >>>>> during the workshop? >>>>> >>>>> Four members of the CIS-A2K team participated in the meeting. >>>>> >>>>> Mr. Sunil Abraham, Executive Director was the chief facilitator on Day >>>>> 1. >>>>> >>>>> Tanveer Hasan and Tito Dutta were organisers and co-facilitators for >>>>> the conversations for both days. >>>>> >>>>> Ananth Subray attended the event to coordinate logistics and >>>>> reimbursements. >>>>> >>>>> ==Reports== >>>>> >>>>> (a) What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly reports >>>>> on the mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia Meta? >>>>> >>>>> We have defaulted on our newsletter because of the exit of our >>>>> communications officer. All the reports are updated here [3]. We will >>>>> also >>>>> update reports here [4] at the earliest. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (b) Can we hear about the reports, shortly? >>>>> >>>>> We will do our best to update reports by the end of this month. >>>>> >>>>> [1]. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Work_plan_July_ >>>>> 2017_-_June_2018/Skill_Building_Initiatives# >>>>> Wikimedia_India_conference_2018 >>>>> >>>>> [2]. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_ >>>>> 2018/Participants%27_List >>>>> >>>>> [3]. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Reports >>>>> >>>>> [4]. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Reports >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> ಭಾನು, ಆಗ 5, 2018 ರಂದು 07:22 ಪೂರ್ವಾಹ್ನ ಸಮಯಕ್ಕೆ ರಂದು Abhinav srivastava < >>>>> abhinav...@gmail.com> ಅವರು ಬರೆದಿದ್ದಾರೆ: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank You Tito for your mail. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would request you to address the issues within 10 days from now. >>>>>> This is just a request. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, one of your colleagues and also my friend informed me that he >>>>>> wanted to reply but his e-mail is being moderated or blacklisted. I have >>>>>> taken this issue with the mailing list admins and the admins have looked >>>>>> into the issue clarifying the said collegeue wasn’t moderated or >>>>>> blacklisted. In case, any issue still arises, please ping me and I will >>>>>> do >>>>>> my best to settle this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank You for writing back. >>>>>> >>>>>> Abhinav >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, August 5, 2018, Tito Dutta <trulyt...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Abhinav, >>>>>>> On behalf of the team, I confirm that we have received your >>>>>>> questions. Thanks for these questions. >>>>>>> We have a hectic schedule right now because of few things such as >>>>>>> CIS (the main institution's) strategy meet, staff transition, grant >>>>>>> report, >>>>>>> and some other works. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Transparency and accountability are very important topics. If >>>>>>> things are not clear for a couple of events, we must work on it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some other member or I'll get back with answers in a few days. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (I am cc-ing Sunil Abraham, ED, of the institution, in this email) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Tito Dutta >>>>>>> Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to >>>>>>> remind me over email or phone call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 13:47, Abhinav srivastava < >>>>>>> abhinav...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Friends From CIS-A2K, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am bringing up a discussion based on few of the concerns >>>>>>>> expressed on the other mail thread. I would like to acknowledge on >>>>>>>> record, >>>>>>>> the past few years CIS-A2K has reached out to communities (besides >>>>>>>> Focussed >>>>>>>> Language Area) much more effectively. I may be the first person to say >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> publicly but I am sure many more would echo my views here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now what concerns me and something CIS-A2K already knows, when the >>>>>>>> community has started acknowledging your work much more, CIS-A2K has >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>> acting as the necessary intervention in times of crisis why >>>>>>>> transparency is >>>>>>>> being not paid its due. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I list some of my questions which everyone is already aware of and >>>>>>>> would request a reply. I would request you to not break the bullet and >>>>>>>> reply each of them separately. Of course! If you are comfortable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ==Conference== >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (a) Did CIS-A2K organize a conference/meetup in Bengaluru this >>>>>>>> summer? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (b) How were the delegates selected and which communities were >>>>>>>> invited? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (c) For all those communities who were invited (based on your >>>>>>>> response to part b) was an official notification sent via village pump, >>>>>>>> mailing list, reaching out to User Group representatives? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (d) Is there a legitimate reason to be non-transparent in the >>>>>>>> process? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (e) When a former CIS-A2K staff informed you about not >>>>>>>> maintaining transparency why was still no heed paid to it (if part d >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> question is NO)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (f) Can reports, learning patterns etc be shared with the >>>>>>>> community? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (g) How much funds were involved? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (h) What were the responsibilities of different CIS-A2K staff >>>>>>>> during the workshop? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ==Reports== >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (a) What has been stopping CIS-A2K to share their monthly >>>>>>>> reports on the mailing list and their Report Section of Wikimedia Meta? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> (b) Can we hear about the reports, shortly? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Satdeep: I could not find any Meta page but I do find a page which >>>>>>>> is put under-construction and this mentions you. Were you a part of >>>>>>>> this? >>>>>>>> If Yes, I am not able to understand, the entire argument you had posted >>>>>>>> yesterday about reporting guidelines and transparency. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Only If, You Were A Party to This. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To Everyone, I understand I may be playing the devil’s role here. >>>>>>>> Some of my close aides have already advised me to stay back since I am >>>>>>>> damaging my personal reputation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My argument is simple if my personal image promotes inclusiveness >>>>>>>> and transparency. I will be happy to remain a soldier fighting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Abhinav >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>> >> >> >> -- >> Netha Hussain >> Institute of Neuroscience and Physiology >> University of Gothenburg, Sweden >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > > -- Warm regards, Ashwin Baindur ------------------------------------------------------
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