I wouldn't dispute that it is transparent, whether that is a positive or a negative is another issue, transparency certainly works for some editors and unlike promotional names transparency is allowed. Even required for some sorts of COI editing. But as it includes the name of the organisation it is also promotional.
If PR agency Acme PR were to start to employ a bunch of spin doctors with usernames such as "Millie C from Acme PR" then it would be obviously promotional. Especially if they were active on wiki arguing that their clients criminal records should be expunged or at least given less coverage than their charity work. WSC On 29 April 2012 14:50, Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: > Is a user name like "MonmouthMuseumWales" "promotional"? > > You could equally argue that it is transparent. And it is just this sort > of transparency which we demand from the Bell Pottingers of this world (and > crucify them for if we find them editing as "John Smith", without telling > us who they work for). > > I think a company name account should be fine, as long as the person gives > their real name on their user page, and states that they are the only ones > editing from that account. That is more accountability and transparency > than we have for any pseudonymous account. > > Andreas > > > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 2:34 PM, WereSpielChequers < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> We shouldn't confuse two overlapping issues here, role accounts and >> promotional usernames. Neither are allowed in Wikipedia, but the objections >> are different. >> >> As for the comparison between IP accounts and registered accounts, yes >> there is an anomaly which would matter if the reason for not allowing role >> accounts was concern over copyright. But the concerns over trust are >> different and apply quite strongly. I'm pretty sure we don't whitelist IP >> accounts for Huggle, we certainly don't give IP editors admin and other >> additional userrights. The reason why we don't do that is that however good >> the edits of the person or persons who have been editing from that IP the >> future edits could come from someone altogether different. >> >> I rather doubt that either Newpage patrol or recent changes patrol could >> function without an effective whitelisting system of people who we've >> learned make trustworthy edits. So the ban on role accounts is needed for >> the smooth running of the project. >> >> As for promotional usernames maybe even the softblock option is too >> harsh, but there is a practical issue here, we are short of admins and >> blocking is much quicker than having a quiet word. Perhaps what we need to >> do is unbundle rename newbie to all admins, and give them the option of >> renaming promotionally named accounts with fewer than 100 edits. I would >> hope that a message such as "Hi and welcome to Wikipedia! I think that Fred >> from PimlicoMuseum might be a promotional username, so I've renamed your >> account to "Fred P" if you are unhappy with your new name please file a >> request here and we can change it again - though we don't want to change it >> to anything that includes the name of an organisation." >> >> WSC >> >> On 29 April 2012 14:12, Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 2:40 AM, Thomas Dalton <[email protected] >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> On 29 April 2012 02:32, Andreas Kolbe <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > Does that make sense though? With an account called "Starwarrior", >>>> say, >>>> > there is no way of knowing who made the edit either. >>>> >>>> Sure, you do. It's not the name on the person's birth certificate, but >>>> it's still a name. It tells you about as much as "John Smith" would. >>>> You can hold that account holder responsible for their actions. With a >>>> role account, they can just say it wasn't them. >>>> >>> >>> >>> With respect, this doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Please consider: >>> >>> 1. We allow IP editing. One IP may be shared by thousands of people. Any >>> one of them can "say it wasn't them". If we are so careless about one half >>> of edits made to Wikipedia, does it make sense to be so stringent about the >>> other half? >>> >>> 2. Even where we have an account name like John Smith and know the >>> account's IP address, it is not trivial to move from that knowledge to >>> identifying the person – especially if the IP address is a proxy, a dynamic >>> IP, or an Internet café in Calcutta. How does having an account name like >>> John Smith help there? >>> >>> 3. It's happened before that several people have shared an account. I >>> can recall a desysop over account sharing. We have no control over that, >>> regardless of what the account name is. >>> >>> Compared to that, identifying the person editing Wikipedia at Monmouth >>> Museum is a cinch. Especially if User:MonmouthMuseumWales says on her user >>> page, "This account is operated by Roisin Curran, the Wikipedian in >>> residence at Monmouth Museum." >>> >>> Surely, that would give us as much transparency as we could ever want? >>> In fact, rather more transparency than we have for all our pseudonymous >>> users? >>> >>> I am not saying we should allow role accounts. I am just not convinced >>> by the arguments brought forward here. >>> >>> And I do think that the present admin practice of blocking role accounts >>> on sight is unfriendly and should stop. I was instrumental in getting Xeno >>> to change [[WP:UAAI]] in February 2011 to say that accounts using >>> organisation names should *not* be blocked on sight if they edit >>> productively, but that admins should *talk* to people first. >>> >>> So it's very disappointing to see that this still goes on, especially if >>> the person at the receiving end is someone on a project like Monmouthpedia. >>> Wikipedia is shooting itself in the foot. >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia UK mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >>> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia UK mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l >> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > >
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