Hoi,
It did not trigger me that it was that old. If I had I would not have
answered it.
Thanks,
Gerard
On 1 April 2012 02:22, M. Williamson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Gerard, on my e-mail this shows as a reply to an e-mail thread from 2005.
> Was this your intention?
>
>
> 2012/3/21 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>
>
> > Hoi,
> > There is a process for the start of new projects and for the start of new
> > language versions. This is a formal process and it does not involve the
> > voting of people. What it does involve is the existence of languages
> > recognised in the ISO-639-3. As such Norwegian, or the no /nor code is
> > considered a macro-language and does not qualify for a new project.
> >
> > It is explicitly understood that by no.wikipedia.org we expect it to be
> > Bokmal.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:No
> >
> > 2005/4/25 Bjarte Sørensen <[email protected]>
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > Most of you would be aware of some of the discussions that have
> occurred
> > > around Wikipedia in the Norwegian languages. Since the last round of
> > > discussions on this list, there has been a lot of internal debate, as
> > > well as what seems to be a fairly widely accepted agreement following
> > > voting.
> > >
> > > This e-mail intends to, after a brief recap on Norwegian language and
> > > wikipedia issues, take those interested through the latest development
> > > and will stake out the road ahead. It is also intended to inform the
> > > international community about the current agreement on no.wikipedia, so
> > > as to prevent misunderstandings in the future.
> > >
> > > Finally, we will mention an unfortunate reaction to the vote by a small
> > > number of users at the Norwegian Bokmål/Riksmål (no:) wikipedia who
> want
> > > to disregard the result of the voting and are planning to create a
> > > _third_ Norwegian wikipedia with the sole mission of mixing the
> contents
> > > of the two current Norwegian versions.
> > >
> > > == A short language history of Norway ==
> > >
> > > Spoken Norwegian ("norsk") (ISO 639-2 alpha-2 code "no") is in a fairly
> > > unique situation compared to most other languages of the world in that
> > > it has two widely accepted written standards, Bokmål (ISO 639-2 alpha-2
> > > code "nb") and Nynorsk (ISO 639-2 alpha-2 code "nn"). By national
> > > legislation they are both regarded as official written forms of
> > > Norwegian. In addition, many people still make a distinction between
> > > Bokmål and its precursor which still is in use, Riksmål.
> > >
> > > Briefly speaking, Bokmål and Riksmål are descendants of the Danish
> > > written language. Until the 1800s, Danish was the only widely used
> > > written language in Norway as a result of four centuries of union with
> > > Denmark. With increasing independence came a wish to norwegianise the
> > > Danish standard, with Knud Knudsen at the forefront for changing parts
> > > of the vocabulary and orthographics. Thus, Riksmål, and later Bokmål,
> > > resulted. These forms together are today probably used by about 90% of
> > > Norway's population, or somewhere around 3,500,000 people.
> > >
> > > Parallel to this development, a new written standard was created by
> Ivar
> > > Aasen. He travelled extensively throughout Norway, and based his new
> > > language, landsmål, on the grammar and vocabulary of dialect samples
> > > from around the country. This was later renamed Nynorsk. Modern Nynorsk
> > > differs significantly from modern Bokmål, and may be linguistically
> > > looked upon as as different (or as similar if you like) as Swedish is
> to
> > > Danish. For English or Dutch/German speakers, the differences may be
> > > likened to those between (Lowland) Scots and English or Low German and
> > > Dutch. Today it is estimated that about 500,000-600,000 people have
> > > Nynorsk as their first written language.
> > >
> > > More information about the Norwegian language history can be found in
> > > English, German, French, Spanish or Portuguese on the website of the
> > > Norwegian Language Council:
> > > http://www.sprakrad.no/templates/Page.aspx?id=653
> > >
> > > == A short history of Wikipedia in Norwegian ==
> > >
> > > The first Norwegian wikipedia started 26 November 2001 on the subdomain
> > > no.wikipedia.org. As most wikipedias, its contributor and article
> count
> > > started really picking up around the end of 2003. At the time, it
> > > accepted all written standards of Norwegian, although the amount of
> > > Nynorsk was minimal. There were already several debates about the
> > > feasibilty and appropriateness of keeping the two languages united on
> > > one Wikipedia. On 31 July 2004 a Wikipedia for Nynorsk was created.
> > >
> > > The creation of nn:, however, split the community at no: wikipedia.
> Many
> > > felt that given that Nynorsk now had its own wikipedia, no: should
> > > become a Bokmål/Riksmål Wikipedia only. Others disapproved and claimed
> > > that there was no need to change and that it should continue its
> > > language policy of accepting all and keep its interwiki link name of
> > > "Norsk".
> > >
> > > Nynorsk Wikipedia soon proved a success, as it within the next few
> > > months gathered several people who had felt uncomfortable in the
> > > (mainly) Bokmål environment at no:. The name displayed in interwiki
> > > links became "Norsk (nynorsk)" (languages are not spelt with upper case
> > > in Norwegian). To date it continues to be one of the fastest growing
> > > wikipedias, with a steady article increase, now at over 6000 articles
> > > and >50 editors with more than 10 edits since arrival.
> > >
> > > == Votes ==
> > >
> > > The issue of no:'s language policy has come up time and again, and a
> > > vote was held in March ([[:no:Wikipedia:Målform]]) as to which policy
> to
> > > adapt. Independent of the method of the tally (whether or not to
> include
> > > new contributors etc.) there was a majority for switching to a
> > > Bokmål/Riksmål only language policy (50% for Bokmål/Riksmål, 43.2% for
> > > Bokmål/Riksmål/Nynorsk/Høgnorsk, and 6.8% for the official variants
> > > Bokmål/Nynorsk only).
> > >
> > > Following this result, there is now going to be a vote on which
> > > interwiki link name will most appropriately reflect the current
> language
> > > policy of no:. The result of this vote will most likely be either
> "Norsk
> > > (bokmål)" or "Norsk (bokmål/riksmål)".
> > >
> > > Understandably, there has also been a debate as to whether the
> subdomain
> > > should change from "no" to "nb", as this is the correct representation
> > > of Bokmål according to ISO 639-2. However, there is some resentment
> > > towards such a move and currently a general acceptance in letting the
> > > Bokmål wikipedia stay at "no". The alternative some have suggested is a
> > > server-side redirect from "no" to "nb", in the same way that "nb" today
> > > is a server-side redirect to the equivalent page on "no".
> > >
> > > == Summary of the problem ==
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, a small group of users (who all write Bokmål/Riksmål)
> are
> > > ignoring the results from the vote, and are claiming they want to
> > > re-establish a wikipedia for all written standards of Norwegian. They
> > > claim they have been in touch with people centrally in Wikimedia
> > > (developers? stewards?) and that they have so far received positive
> > > comments. With this email, we would like to state the fact that there
> > > have been no official decisions about creating a third Norwegian
> > > wikipedia containing both Bokmål and Nynorsk, it is merely an
> unofficial
> > > initiative from a small group of users which started a sign-on list at
> > > [[:no:Bruker:Norsk_Wikipedia]]. A spontaneous list with signatures
> > > against this activity was immediately created at
> > > [[:no:Wikipedia-diskusjon:Fellesnorsk]]. The process of creating a
> third
> > > Norwegian wikipedia has not gone through a voting process in any of the
> > > two existing Norwegian wikipedias (no: and nn:) and can not be
> > > considered as a decision by the Norwegian Wikipedia community.
> > >
> > > We believe the creation of a third wikipedia under the Wikimedia
> > > foundation would have a serious and unfortunate impact on the existing
> > > wikipedias in Norwegian, no: and nn:, and would undermine Wikipedia's
> > > reputation in Norway. This being said, we are all for extensive co-
> > > operation between the four Scandinavian language wikipedias (including
> > > Swedish and Danish), as evident by the recent creation of
> > > [[:meta:Skanwiki]], the Scandinavian meta-pages, and the use of
> featured
> > > articles from neighbour wikipedias.
> > >
> > > == Conclusion ==
> > >
> > > Hopefully, this letter will help people better understand the
> > > complicated language situation of the Norwegian Wikipedia community, so
> > > as to give a background on which discussion can take place on this list
> > > in the future, such as the inevitable debate following a possible
> > > request for a re-establishment of the common (and third!) Norwegian
> > > Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > >From the community of no.wikipedia.org and nn.wikipedia.org,
> > >
> > > Bjarte Sørensen [[:meta:User:BjarteSorensen]] (Administrator/bureaucrat
> > on
> > > nn:)
> > > Lars Alvik [[:no:User:Profoss]] (Administrator/bureaucrat on no:)
> > > Øyvind A. Holm [[:no:User:Sunny256]] (Administrator on no:)
> > > Onar Vikingstad [[:no:User:Vikingstad]] (Administrator on no:)
> > > Jon Harald Søby [[:no:User:Jhs]] (Administrator on no:)
> > > Chris Nyborg [[:no:User:Cnyborg]] (Administrator on no:)
> > > Guttorm Flatabø [[:no:User:Dittaeva]] (Administrator on nn:)
> > > Gunleiv Hadland [[:meta:User:Gunnernett]] (Administrator on nn:)
> > > Jarle Fagerheim [[:nn:User:Jarle]] (Administrator on nn:)
> > > Øyvind Jo Heimdal Eik [[:en:User:Pladask]] (Administrator on nn: and
> no:)
> > > Kristian André Gallis [[:nn:User:Kristaga]]
> > > Vegard Wærp [[:no:User:Vegardw]]
> > > Nina Aldin Thune [[:no:User:Nina]]
> > > Thor-Rune Hansen [[:no:User:ThorRune]]
> > > Claes Tande [[:no:User:Ctande]]
> > > Arnt-Erik Krokaa [[:no:User:AEK]]
> > > Rune Sattler [[:no:User:Shauni]]
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
