Hi, Why the vagueness?? Why can't we know how many said yes, how many said no, how many didnt answer, what are the arguments for and the arguments against inside langcom? Like I said before, how do you know when someone becomes inactive?
I am completely ok with any decision, I (and a ton other people) however, would like to feel that our arguments where heard by all the committee members before making a decision and would like a little bit more transparency than 'I asked them and they said yes'. On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Hoi, > I requested an opinion from the other members of the language committee. > They came with the answer that Egyptian Arabic should be considered > eligible. I am completely ok with this result, but for the record I asked > for an opinion and got a favourable decision. The notion that I forwarded > an > opinion is not correct. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Muhammad Alsebaey <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Gerard is emotional because for him somehow all boils down to freedom of > > speech. I had an argument earlier with him on foundation-I and questioned > > the process and he would repeatedly go to "why do you want to inhibit the > > freedom of others when no one is trying to do the same to you". I tried > to > > point out this is pretty irrelevant to what I am asking to no avail. I > > asked > > whether I could see the deliberation of LangCom regarding this case when > he > > said 'Langcom took into account all the issues you raised while making a > > decision' but he said those are confidential (even Ting raised an > objection > > to that!), and then later on said the 'deliberations' consisted of him > > declaring it on the mailing list and no one objected. > > > > Regardless of the issue of Masry, I for one would like to see more > > transparency out of langcom, I would like to see the deliberations of its > > members archived somewhere and I would like to see what are the rules of > > discussions (like what Brion said about the minimum of ppl required for a > > discussion). Posting a proposal and recieving no answer doesnt > necessarily > > mean everyone considered the subject, it may also mean that they didnt. > > Also, if that is your process, how do you determine when a member of > > langcom > > becomes inactive? > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Bilal Abdul Kader <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >wrote: > > > > > Hi Gerard, > > > This will be my last contribution to this topic but it seems you are > > taking > > > the issue emotionally. Brion is not asking for more than a due process. > I > > > really do not see the argument of pro-masri or anti-masri in his words. > > > > > > Wikipedia should not be used to advance nationalist causes. Rather, it > > > provides an open medium to disseminate information and let people > > > collaborate to build an encyclopedia that others can use. > > > > > > bilal > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Gerard Meijssen > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > > > Hoi, > > > > There is a strong sentiment against allowing for the Egyptian Arabic > > > > Wikipedia by those who prefer a unified Arabic Wikipedia. They have > > used > > > > all > > > > kinds of arguments but in essence they refuse others to work on what > is > > > > after all a recognised separate language. When they argue that it > will > > > > fracture the effort for the Arabic Wikipedia, they forget that it is > > not > > > > their time and effort they are directing. When they argue that not > much > > > is > > > > written in Egyptian Arabic, they forget that this is no different for > > > many > > > > languages like Limburgian as well. Their problem is that their view > of > > a > > > > world where everyone speaks the same language is at odds with how it > is > > > > perceived others. > > > > > > > > There is a request for an Egyptian Arabic Wiktionary in the pipe line > > and > > > > with 99,81% for the MediaWiki messages and 97.51% they have > > demonstrated > > > > their comitment to this effort. It is all the more remarkable because > > > they > > > > do not have their Wikipedia yet. It is a clear testament to their > wish > > to > > > > do > > > > well for their language. > > > > > > > > The point of the language committee is that it has the remit to > decide > > on > > > > these issues.Consequently there are situations where some will not > > agree > > > > what it is that the committee decides and it means that there will be > > no > > > > public consensus. This is to be expected and accepted. > > > > > > > > Brion, when you have specific questions as to the approval of > Egyptian > > > > Arabic, raise them. What you are doing is calling the process itself > > into > > > > doubt. As it is clear that you are not familiar with the process in > the > > > > first place, the policy as it is does not allow for extinct and > > > constructed > > > > languages and you write that such languages are created, I think you > > > should > > > > create the arz.wikipedia.org. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > GerardM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Brion Vibber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > > > > > Gerard Meijssen wrote: > > > > > > Egyptian Arabic is recognised as a language by the International > > > > > > Standardisation Organisation (ISO) in its ISO-639-3 standard. > > > > > > > > > > Well, so is Klingon! :) An ISO-639-3 listing doesn't by itself > confer > > > > > appropriateness for use; it merely confirms that the language can > be > > > > > referred to with a standardized code. > > > > > > > > > > Appropriateness for use in a Wikimedia project tends to vary quite > a > > > > > bit; in some areas we avoid creating wikis for national variants of > > > > > larger language groups, in other areas we create a lot of national > > and > > > > > subnational variants. > > > > > > > > > > Since this is a written medium, national or subnational language > > > > > variants are usually most controversial where there isn't a > standard > > > > > orthography and the requested form is not commonly used in written > > > > > communication. (On the other hand, even extinct languages are > > > frequently > > > > > given wikis where they have a long written historical context.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm only asking about arz specifically because: > > > > > > > > > > a) It's recently come up as we're tidying up the backlog, so it's > at > > > the > > > > > top of the pile > > > > > > > > > > b) I've gotten specific questions about the approval process for > arz, > > > so > > > > > we're making sure everything's clear before setting it up > > > > > > > > > > c) The public discussion I have seen was not conclusive, and it's > not > > > > > yet clear that the langcom discussion was conclusive either. > > > > > > > > > > If the discussion was conclusive, then we'll be happy to finish it > > up. > > > > > But since I'd rather not go through this every time we have another > > > wiki > > > > > to create, I want to make sure that the process is clear. > > > > > > > > > > - -- brion > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) > > > > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > > > > > > > > > iEYEARECAAYFAkkgpXgACgkQwRnhpk1wk44c0wCfU/WtGWRLJU3qi30AoAP3RQFz > > > > > IgAAoLlrtyVqCP6GmPxy4ZCxT7vyJiGC > > > > > =A5X/ > > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best Regards, > > Muhammad Alsebaey > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > -- Best Regards, Muhammad Alsebaey _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
