OOPS. I am awfully sorry for such a gross mistake.

I am very very sorry.

I especially apologise for saying the email was of little use, I said  
it jokingly. It was of much use to me, as I got parts of the other  
side of the story which one doesn't get from the usual news sites.

I sincerely apologise for making such statements and hope that it will  
be taken in the way it was intended -- a very very casual way.

On 2009-May-15, at 04:58, Vedant Lath wrote:

> such a detailed reply which must have taken a lot of time for a
> mediawiki developer, with little use.
>
> btw, this does show that net neutrality is not at all clear cut.
> bittorrent gives a lot of options for abuse of the network -- many
> leechers don't seed, too many connections max out the hardware, etc.
>
> On 2009-Apr-19, at 01:22, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Gregory Maxwell
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> But if you are running parallel connections to avoid slowdowns  
>>> you're
>>> just attempting to cheat TCP congestion control and get an unfair
>>> share of the available bandwidth.  That kind of selfish behaviour
>>> fuels non-neutral behaviour and ought not be encouraged.
>> [snip]
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 3:06 AM, Brian <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> I have no problem helping someone get a faster download speech and
>>> I'm also
>>> not willing to fling around fallacies about how selfish behavior is
>>> bad for
>>> society. Here is wget vs. aget for the full history dump of the
>>> simple
>> [snip]
>>
>> And? I did point out this is possible, and that no torrent was
>> required to achieve this end. Thank you for validating my point.
>>
>> Since you've called my position fallacious I figure I ought to give  
>> it
>> a reasonable defence, although we've gone off-topic.
>>
>> The use of parallel TCP has allowed you an inequitable share of the
>> available network capacity[1]. The parallel transport is  
>> fundamentally
>> less efficient as it increases the total number of congestion
>> drops[2]. The categorical imperative would have us not perform
>> activities that would be harmful if everyone undertook them. At the
>> limit: If everyone attempted to achieve an unequal share of capacity
>> by running parallel connections the internet would suffer congestion
>> collapse[3].
>>
>> Less philosophically and more practically: the unfair usage of
>> capacity by parallel fetching P2P tools is a primary reason for
>> internet providers to engage in 'non-neutral' activities such as
>> blocking or throttling this P2P traffic[4][5][6].  Ironically, a
>> provider which treats parallel transport technologies unfairly will  
>> be
>> providing a more fair network service and non-neutral handling of
>> traffic is the only way to prevent an (arguably unfair)  
>> redistribution
>> of transport towards end user heavy service providers.
>>
>> (I highly recommend reading the material in [5] for a simple overview
>> of P2P fairness and network efficiency; as well as the Briscone IETF
>> draft in [4] for a detailed operational perspective)
>>
>> Much of the public discussion on neutrality has focused on portraying
>> service providers considering or engaging in non-neutral activities  
>> as
>> greedy and evil. The real story is far more complicated and far less
>> clear cut.
>>
>> Where this is on-topic is that non-neutral behaviour by service
>> providers may well make the Wikimedia Foundation's mission more  
>> costly
>> to practice in the future.  In my professional opinion I believe the
>> best defence against this sort of outcome available to organizations
>> like Wikimedia (and other large content houses) is the promotion of
>> equitable transfer mechanisms which avoid unduly burdening end user
>> providers and therefore providing an objective justification for
>> non-neutral behaviour.  To this end Wikimedia should not promote or
>> utilize cost shifting technology (such as P2P distribution) or
>> inherently unfair inefficient transmission (parallel TCP; or fudged
>> server-side initial window) gratuitously.
>>
>> I spent a fair amount of time producing what I believe to be a well
>> cited reply which I believe stands well enough on its own that I
>> should not need to post any more in support of it. I hope that you
>> will at least put some thought into the issues I've raised here  
>> before
>> dismissing this position.  If my position is fallacious then numerous
>> academics and professionals in the industry are guilty of falling for
>> the same fallacies.
>>
>>
>> [1] Cho, S. 2006 Congestion Control Schemes for Single and Parallel
>> Tcp Flows in High Bandwidth-Delay Product Networks. Doctoral Thesis.
>> UMI Order Number: AAI3219144., Texas A & M University.
>> [2] Padhye, J., Firoiu, V. Towsley, D. and Kurose, J., Modeling TCP
>> throughput: a simple model and its empirical validation. ACMSIGCOMM,
>> Sept. 1998.
>> [3] Floyd, S., and Fall, K., Promoting the Use of End-to-End
>> Congestion Control in the Internet, IEEE/ACM Transactions on
>> Networking, Aug. 1999.
>> [4] B. Briscoe, T. Moncaster, L. Burness (BT),
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-briscoe-tsvwg-relax-fairness-01
>> [5] Nicholas Weaver presentation  "Bulk Data P2P:
>> Cost Shifting, not Cost Savings"
>> (http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/p2pi_shifting.ppt); Nicholas
>> Weaver Position Paper P2PI Workshop http://www.funchords.com/p2pi/1
>> p2pi-weaver.txt
>> [6] Bruno Tuffin, Patrick Maillé: How Many Parallel TCP Sessions to
>> Open: A Pricing Perspective. ICQT 2006: 2-12
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Reply via email to