Heh, you think?

Deploying a new browser is not a trivial exercise in some large-scale
environments.

And a lot of companies have really useless IT departments (i.e. no budget).

Trust me; we get employed (at vastly greater expense than simply upgrading)
to tell them why their IT infrastructure is so insecure.
Tom

On 3 June 2011 21:35, Mono mium <[email protected]> wrote:

> Anyone can upgrade, Chad. It's not hard and any sane IT department
> should have done it six years ago.
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Chad <[email protected]> wrote:
> > We shouldn't throw annoying text/graphics at people who
> > probably *cant* upgrade.
> >
> > -Chad
> > On Jun 3, 2011 4:27 PM, "Mono mium" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Why not?
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Huib Laurens <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>> Thats completly not the point.
> >>>
> >>> 2011/6/3, Mono mium <[email protected]>:
> >>>> We don't want to use Microsoft's, whatever we do, because it promotes
> > their
> >>>> own borked browser IE9.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Mark Dilley <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> <aside from main conversation>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Would it be a good community gesture to join Microsoft in trying to
> >>>>> eradicate IE6?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://TheIE6Countdown.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> or to not join them and put up a more general banner
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://IE6NoMore.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and move on?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> </aside from main conversation>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 03Jun2011, at 10:53 AM, Brion Vibber wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Tim Starling <
> [email protected]
> >>>>> >wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> On 03/06/11 06:56, Brion Vibber wrote:
> >>>>> >>> For 1) I'm honestly a bit willing to sacrifice a few IE 6 users
> at
> >>>>> >>> this
> >>>>> >>> point; the vendor's dropped support, shipped three major
> versions,
> > and
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> >>> actively campaigning to get the remaining users to upgrade. :)
> But
> > I
> >>>>> get
> >>>>> >>> protecting, so if we can find a workaround that's ok.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> We can't really do this without sending "Vary: User-Agent", which
> >>>>> >> would completely destroy our cache hit ratio. For people who use
> > Squid
> >>>>> >> with our X-Vary-Options patch, it would be possible to use a very
> > long
> >>>>> >> X-Vary-Options header to single out IE 6 requests, but not
> everyone
> >>>>> >> has that patch.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I'm really thinking more along the lines of: if someone's an IE
> >>>>> 6-or-below
> >>>>> > user they have hundreds of other exploit vectors staring them in
> the
> >>>>> > face
> >>>>> > too, and we can't protect them against many of them -- or ANY of
> them
> > if
> >>>>> > they're visiting other sites than just an up-to-date MediaWiki.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > The cost of this fix has been immense; several versions of the fix
> > with
> >>>>> > varying levels of disruption on production sites, both for IE 6
> users
> >>>>> > and
> >>>>> > non-IE 6 users, and several weeks of delay on the 1.17.0 release.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I'd be willing to accept a few drive-by downloads for IE 6 users;
> > it's
> >>>>> not
> >>>>> > ideal but it's something that their antivirus tools etc will
> already
> > be
> >>>>> > watching out for, that end-users already get trained to beware of,
> > and
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> > will probably *still* be exploitable on other web sites that they
> > visit
> >>>>> > anyway.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > The main issue here is that we don't a wide variety of web servers
> > set
> >>>>> >> up for testing. We know that Apache lets you detect %2E versus dot
> > via
> >>>>> >> $_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'], but we don't know if any other web
> servers
> > do
> >>>>> >> that.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Note that checking for %2E alone is not sufficient, a lot of
> >>>>> >> installations (including Wikimedia) have an alias /wiki ->
> >>>>> >> /w/index.php which can be used to exploit action=raw.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Well that should be fine; as long as we can see the
> "/wiki?/foo.bat"
> >>>>> > then
> >>>>> we
> >>>>> > can identify that it doesn't contain an unencoded dot in the path.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > It sounds like simply checking REQUEST_URI when available would
> >>>>> > eliminate
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> > huge portion of our false positives that affect real-world
> > situations.
> >>>>> > Apache is still the default web server in most situations for most
> >>>>> > folks,
> >>>>> > and of course runs our own production servers.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>> Are there any additional exploit vectors for API output other
> than
> >>>>> >>> HTML
> >>>>> >> tags
> >>>>> >>> mixed unescaped into JSON?
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Yes, all other content types, as I said above.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Only as drive-by downloads, or as things that execute without
> >>>>> interaction?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> I think the current solution in trunk, plus the redirect idea that
> >>>>> >> I've been discussing with Roan, is our best bet for now, unless
> >>>>> >> someone wants to investigate $_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'].
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > *nod* Checking REQUEST_URI is probably the first thing we should do
> > when
> >>>>> > it's available.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> If there is an actual problem with ForeignAPIRepo then we can look
> > at
> >>>>> >> server-side special cases for it. But r89248 should allow all API
> >>>>> >> requests that have a dotless value in their last GET parameter,
> and
> > a
> >>>>> >> quick review of ForeignAPIRepo in 1.16 and trunk indicates that it
> >>>>> >> always sends such requests.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Yay! That's one less thing to worry about. :D
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> Since we're talking about discarded solutions for this, maybe it's
> >>>>> >> worth noting that I also investigated using a Content-Disposition
> >>>>> >> header. The vulnerability involves an incorrect cache filename,
> and
> >>>>> >> it's possible to override the cache filename using a
> >>>>> >> Content-Disposition "filename" parameter. The reason I gave up on
> it
> >>>>> >> is because we already use Content-Disposition for wfStreamFile():
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>       header( "Content-Disposition:
> >>>>> >> inline;filename*=utf-8'$wgLanguageCode'" . urlencode( basename(
> > $fname
> >>>>> >> ) ) );
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> IE 6 doesn't understand the charset specification, so it ignores
> the
> >>>>> >> header and goes back to detecting the extension.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Good to know.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > -- brion
> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> >>>>> > [email protected]
> >>>>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
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> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
> >>>> [email protected]
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Verzonden vanaf mijn mobiele apparaat
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>>
> >>> Huib Laurens
> >>> WickedWay.nl
> >>>
> >>> Webhosting the wicked way.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikitech-l mailing list
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> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >>>
> >>
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> >
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