A few background notes:

* The generic external link icon is applied by virtual of existence of the
'external' class, which is a nice simple implementation. I kinda like it. :)

* In contrast, the CSS rules used to mark certain external links with the
PDF, IRC, SSL, etc "specific" icon types are relatively ugly and hard to
maintain. These use inefficient client-side attribute value matching. There
is a desire to clean these up in the style sheets, which would of course be
easiest if they're simply removed.

* If it's useful to keep those subtypes, it may be more desirable to
implement them differently (for instance by having the parser apply the
matching rules and output a class). This would simplify the CSS rules for
maintenance, since they would be able to just use the classes.

* Note that some of the rules such as PDF detection can misidentify
resource types (for instance the rules would mark a File:Blah.pdf file
*page* on Commons as "PDF" even though it's not actually a PDF download,
but an HTML web page). This would not necessarily change under the above
proposal to change implementation, as the basic problem is that you can't
really reliably determine a file type from a "file extension" on a URL (the
only real way to check is to try fetching the resource, or at least its
HTTP headers, and report back what type was received).

-- brion


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Quiddity <[email protected]> wrote:

> As Bartosz says, and I think most of the communities would agree if asked
> on their respective village pumps - we value the external link icon in
> particular, and most of the other icons in general (with the possible
> exception of the https padlock). We think they are useful for both editors
> and readers.
>
> Re: Gadget - This isn't a particular workflow - this is:
> "I'm reading a random article, and I notice an external link icon, so, as
> a wikignome, I either: (if spam) remove it, (if citation) fix it, (if
> [subjective decision about its relevance/worth and adherence to [[WP:EL]]
> guideline) move it into the External links section."
> A gadget would not be a good replacement.
>
> By all means clean up the CSS, but do not consider removing the icons
> without seeking much much wider input.
>
>
>
> On 13-10-29 11:57 AM, Jared Zimmerman wrote:
>
>> Nick, good points, for the particular use case sounds like a gadget for
>> showing external links called out for workflows around fixing them would
>> be a good idea. After hearing everyone's thought i'm leaning toward no
>> icons for the average user.
>>
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *Jared Zimmerman *\\Director of User Experience \\Wikimedia Foundation
>> M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmerman <https://twitter.com/**
>> JaredZimmerman <https://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:41 AM, quiddity <[email protected]
>> <mailto:pandiculation@gmail.**com <[email protected]>>> wrote:
>>
>>     +1 for more discussion, and onwiki discussion to find out why
>>     we/they've each kept them in the individual CSS payloads for so many
>>     years...
>>
>>
>>                     On 10/24/2013 02:48 PM, Jared Zimmerman wrote:
>>
>>>                     Its  definitely a less heavy handed way of doing
>>>                     the thing many (annoying) sites do when they warn
>>>                     you that you're leaving their site. I just wonder
>>>                     is the signal to noise it worth it. I don't know
>>>                     that modern web users have any expectations that
>>>                     link within a site always point to local site urls.
>>>
>>>
>>     Wikis are special, in relation to most sites, because of the density
>>     of internal links (many per paragraph), and the expectation that
>>     most links are internal and will lead to a similar quality/style of
>>     information. That applies from Wikisource, to Wookiepedia.
>>
>>     In wikis that don't mix external links in the main content (eg most
>>     Wikipedias), the icons are also useful /for editors/ as they can
>>
>>     easily notice that something needs to be moved/fixed.
>>
>>     See 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Help:External_link_icons<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:External_link_icons>for
>>  a
>>     good list of what the English Wikipedia has.
>>
>>     See also recent discussion at
>>     
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.**org/show_bug.cgi?id=54604<https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54604>("Ridiculous
>>     amount of CSS rules for external links")
>>
>>
>>     The only icon that seems (afaik) completely unnecessary, and
>>     bright/distracting, is the https padlock, which possibly
>>     could/should be replaced with the standard external link icon.
>>     (Unless there's a rationale for it that I'm forgetting/unaware of.)
>>
>>     See this 2009 discussion where Davidgothberg created a blue (less
>>     distracting) replacement, if we need to keep a padlock for some
>> reason.
>>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**MediaWiki_talk:Common.css/**
>> Archive_11#Secure_links_**padlock<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Common.css/Archive_11#Secure_links_padlock>
>>     
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/**wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/**60320<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/60320>
>>
>>     HTH. Quiddity
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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