Ah, I just tried using Flow on mediawiki.org. Now I understand what everyone's talking about.
This is definitely not how Echo was intended to be used. The Echo scope definition[1] on mediawiki.org specifically says that it is not to be used for watchlist items. The developer guide also says that new notifications should be opt-in by default unless they are critical.[2] 1. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Echo_%28Notifications%29#Scope 2. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Echo_%28Notifications%29/Developer_guide#Conventions Ryan Kaldari On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:08 AM, Derric Atzrott <[email protected] > wrote: > >>> - *it* *doesn't* *scale* (constantly seeing a "(3)" or new emails pop > up > >> if you're active in ~6 discussions is a pain) > >> > >> OK, so how do you suggest changing it? > >> > >>> - _nothing_ on-wiki ever warrants an urgent reaction ever > >> All the community members who clamored for the return of the Orange Bar > of > >> Death seem to disagree with you. > >> > > You use the past tense. I *still* clamor for the Orange Bar of Death. > > Agreed! I participate in a fair number of discussions pretty regularly, > and > being notified of mentions and pings is probably my favourite thing about > echo. Perhaps I am just a WP:Wikipediholic, but there are definitely > things > that happen on-wiki that warrant urgent reactions. > > Just last night I accidentally screwed up someone's talk page and I'm very > happy for the notification that I was left a message ("What the hell were > you doing in this edit?!?") so that I could revert my edit quickly and > apologise. > > > To me, the answer is obvious: pull messaging out of echo, and summarize > > notifications on echo for the remaining notifications (i.e. if a > > notification for a given page is already sitting unread, don't bump the > > number, and replace the message with "x AND y have happened on z". For > > messages, give us back the OBOD. > > This is actually a good idea. You could have the individual items listed > on Special:Notifications and just have the summarized items under the list > in echo. > > >>> - Echo is a consequence of a watchlist page which many people find > >>> insufficiently informative, intuitive, or easy to control. > >> > >> Yes, the watchlist page needs a total overhaul. Notifications aren't > >> necessarily about articles though. We considered having Echo integrated > >> into the watchlist, but this would have make the project much more > complex > >> and politically contentious. As you say below, "simplicity is the key to > >> success". > > Don't get that. > > You can't change things too much without it becoming politically > contentious. > One needn't look any further than the Mediaviewer controversy to see that. > I'm sure there are other reasons as well that I am unaware of. > > > I want Flow notifications if someone replies to me, or mentions me in > > a talk post. Or even for everything if that Flow board would happen to > > be my own talk page for instance. BUT, that is separate from watching > > a page. > > > > Normally, when watching a page, I would not want notifications on > > every page that I visit, for every reply to every post, new post or > > retitled post. I want to see what the last major changes were. Mostly, > > new topics, and the last change to a new topic. > > > > Currently, I feel like Echo is forcing me to consume Flow discussion, > > where rather, I only want to be 'subscribed' to them and then consume > > the subscription at the moment that I feel comfortable doing that. It > > is like it is mixing my mailbox with my newspaper... > > I haven't played around with Flow yet, but if that is how Flow integrates > into Echo, I can definitely see that being a huge complaint from a ton of > people. I'd find that somewhat annoying too. > > Thank you, > Derric Atzrott > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
