I do not have enough information about the events that you are talking about, so I cannot form a complete picture with the limited information that you offer. The nature of the job of the TCC seems to suggest that they should operate with discretion and confidentiality, and answer questions only to the people involved in the issues. They do not have to explain whatever they read to any outside party, because even with all the values of openness and transparency, the privacy of the involved parties should be guaranteed. I mentioned the CHR because it offers a way to share information from meetings if needed, not to say that all information should be shared, because that is not the case.
I do not consider the operation of a common account as hiding, but rather as a way to distribute the pressure that comes from external parties. Considering the negative language that you use in your communication I find it very appropriate. Micru (also from mobile) On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 4:34 PM Fæ <[email protected]> wrote: > If you are going to quote Chatham House Rule, then look it up first please. > The secretive behaviour of the TCC, along with the habit of choosing to > suppress evidence or answer questions, to the stage where WMF employees do > not want to explain what they read with their own eyes for fear of falling > foul of extream interpretations of the CoC, even when originally the > incident was a public published record, is way more paranoid than applying > CHR. > > The top level stated values of our community and the WMF are explicitly to > remain as open and transparent as possible. Recent incidents involving the > TCC and the apparent worsening relationships between unpaid volunteers and > WMF contractors/employees demonstrate a failure to meet those ethical and > good governance considerations. Hiding behind an anonymous email address is > merely the most obvious anti-transparency measure. You would think that TCC > members are worried about putting their names against their own Committee's > actions. > > "At a meeting held under the Chatham House Rule, anyone who comes to the > meeting is free to use information from the discussion, but is not allowed > to reveal who made any comment. It is designed to increase openness of > discussion." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_House_Rule > > Fae (from a mobile phone) > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 11:04 David Cuenca Tudela, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > @Nemo: It could be that the priority change was not seen as aggressive, > and > > probably it was not initially as we have the "be bold" tradition. > However, > > that changes as the issue heats up and becomes an edit war. In this case > it > > didn't get to that point (less than 3 reverts, although the reverts might > > be perceived more strongly in Phabricator, and because the person doing > > them had a position of power). Linguistically it is also challenging > > because maybe the person using the word "troll" was not aware that it > could > > have been interpreted as "assuming bad faith". Even if an act is > qualified > > as "troll" there is some judgement about something that the author of the > > action might have not intended. > > > > It is not fair to put all the blame on WMF employees, they might be part > of > > the issue, but every coin has two sides. WMF employees could improve > their > > openness with the frustration they get from the community, and also the > > community should be more willing to be constructive and understanding. > > Probably neither the WMF employees nor the community is getting the help > > needed to collaborate better, but whose role is to provide it? > > > > I agree that normally the weakest suffer the most, and that somebody > > (again, who?) should take the lead in this case to explain to the > > contributor what happened and offer an apology. > > > > @Fae: indeed friendly mediation seems more appropriate in this case, but > > again, by who? The people involved in this case didn't have anywhere to > go, > > so I find it understandable that they resort to their only available > option > > right now. > > > > If the TCC wants to create a friendly environment, they cannot tackle > > unfriendliness in an unfriendly way (unless there are no other options, > or > > the gravity of the situation requires so). > > > > I am not worried about the lack of transparency of the TCC, because > > actually it should be done that way to protect its participants (cfr. > > Chatham House Rule), but of course they could document how they reached > > difficult decisions. It could be useful to assess future cases. > > > > Micru > > > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:19 AM Fæ <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The lack of transparency of TCC actions and assessment processes is > > > troubling. TCC was supposed to be a means to handle serious misuse or > > > harassment, not to use steel boots to stamp out all "non-positivity". > > > > > > Trivial cases like this should best be handled firstly by off project > > > grown-up mediation, rather than TCC warnings for which the next step > may > > be > > > a global ban. > > > > > > Honestly, the TCC's actions have looked so authoritarian to my eyes, I > > fear > > > I am adding evidence to a case for a permanent ban of my account by > > writing > > > non-positive words here. The TCC is guilty of creating a hostile > > > environment that appears unwelcoming and threatens volunteers in all > > > "technical spaces". > > > > > > Fae > > > > > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 22:46 MZMcBride, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >Hello, > > > > >Please refrain from name calling, the CoC has received some reports > > > about > > > > >users being offended by you calling them trolls. While those > comments > > > > >might not have been malicious they are not constructive and do not > > > > >contribute to a welcoming environment for contributors. > > > > > > > > > >Best > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > >This email was sent by TechConductCommittee to MZMcBride by the > "Email > > > > >this user" function at MediaWiki. If you reply to this email, your > > email > > > > >will be sent directly to the original sender, revealing your email > > > > >address to them. > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation Inc. employees have blocked the ability of new > > users > > > > to report bugs or file feature requests or even read the issue > tracker. > > > > But yes, please focus on me calling Andre a troll for resetting the > > > > priority of <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T197550>. My single > > > comment > > > > ("andre__: Such a troll.") is clearly what contributes to an > > unwelcoming > > > > environment for contributors, not blocking them from reading the site > > and > > > > demanding that they be vetted first. Great work, all. > > > > > > > > A pseudo-focus on "civility" while you take a hard-line and skeptical > > > view > > > > toward outsiders. Maybe these people are auditioning for roles in the > > > > Trump Administration. :-) > > > > > > > > I'm mostly forwarding this garbage here so that there's some better > and > > > > more appropriate context when, in a few months, someone says "well, > the > > > > code of conduct committee has dealt with dozens of incidents! Clearly > > > it's > > > > necessary!" The people pushing this campaign for more bureaucracy > have > > > > repeatedly declined to provide specifics about incidents because it's > > > > pretty obvious that nobody would take them seriously (and > rightfully!) > > if > > > > there were a clearer understanding of what they're actually doing. > > > > > > > > Best! > > > > > > > > MZMcBride > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > -- > > Etiamsi omnes, ego non > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
