One concern id have if this approach is scaled up, is what happens to
maintenance of these projects after they are done? Not that this isnt a
problem with traditional teams too, but with the wishlist approach it seems
like it would be all the more problematic, especially for larger projects.

--
Brian

On Sunday, October 13, 2019, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>
wrote:

> I don't know if restricting the wishlist only for other projects is so
> terrible. Non-Wikipedia projects have complained for years that they are
> not getting enough attention, so perhaps giving them extra love at the
> expense of Wikipedia makes sense.
>
> I would look at a wider problem, though. Over the years that the community
> wishlist vote has been working, a lot of excellent projects were completed
> by the Community Tech team: global preferences, the pageviews tool,
> TemplateWizard, wiki syntax highlighting, edit summary improvements, and
> many more. However, several projects that received a very large number of
> votes were declined, not because they were undesirable but because they
> were too big for this team, which by its nature is oriented at small,
> timeboxed projects. That, by itself, is understandable.
>
> The real trouble is that even though there is demand for these things
> (given the vote results), and even though no-one seems to think that the
> ideas are invalid or undesirable, they ended up not being done. Some
> notable examples:
> * Cross-wiki watchlist (#4 in 2015, declined:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Global,_cross-
> wiki,_integrated_or_stacked_watchlists#Declined
> )
> * Global gadgets (#1 in 2016; I couldn't find the reason for declining)
> * Global templates (#3 in 2015; marked as "in development by Parsing team",
> but not actually done)
>
> All of these things are still very much in demand. All of them happen to be
> particularly beneficial also to non-Wikipedia projects, but if they will be
> proposed for this year's wishlist vote and get a lot of votes, will they
> again be declined because they are too big for the Community Tech team or
> will they be escalated to another team (or teams) that can execute them?
>
> If there is no commitment to such escalation from higher management, we'll
> stay stuck in a ridiculous situation in which the most needed projects are
> also those that cannot be carried out.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
>
> ‫בתאריך שבת, 5 באוק׳ 2019 ב-2:44 מאת ‪Yuri Astrakhan‬‏ <‪
> yuriastrak...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
>
> > Ilana, restricting wishlist to non-Wikipedia this year is a very sad
> news.
> >
> > For many years, wishlist survey was the best way for the community to
> talk
> > back to the foundation, and to try to influence its direction. WMF mostly
> > ignored these wishes, yet it was still a place to express, discuss,
> > aggregate and vote on what community needed. Big thank-you is due to the
> > tiny community tech team that tackled the top 10 items, but that's just
> ~3%
> > of the foundation's employees.
> >
> > WMF has been steadily separating itself from the community and loosing
> > credibility as a guiding force.  Take a look at the last election --
> almost
> > every candidate has said "no" to the question if WMF is capable of
> > deciding/delivering on the direction [1].  In **every** single
> conversation
> > I had with the community members, people expressed doubts with the
> movement
> > strategy project, in some cases even treating it as a joke.
> >
> > This is a huge problem, and restricting wishlist kills the last effective
> > feedback mechanism community had.  Now WMF is fully in control of itself,
> > with nearly no checks & balances from the people who created it.
> >
> > I still believe that if WMF makes it a priority to align most of its
> > quarterly/yearly goals with the community wishlist (not just top 10
> > positions), we could return to the effective community-governance.
> > Otherwise WMF is risking to mirror Red Cross Haiti story [2] -- hundreds
> of
> > millions of $$ donated, and very few buildings actually built.
> >
> > With great respect to all the people who made Wikis what they are today,
> > --[[User:Yurik]]
> >
> > [1]
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate-selected_Board_
> seats/2019/Questions#Do_you_believe_the_Wikimedia_
> Foundation_in_its_present_form_is_the_right_vehicle_for_
> the_delivery_of_the_strategic_direction?_If_so_why,_and_if_
> not,_what_might_replace_it
> > ?
> >
> > [2]
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Red_Cross#Disaster_
> preparedness_and_response
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 5:18 PM Ilana Fried <ifr...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello, everyone!
> > >
> > > My name is Ilana, and I'm the product manager for the Community Tech
> > team.
> > > We’re excited to share an update on the Community Tech 2020 Wishlist
> > Survey
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2020>. This
> > > will
> > > be our fifth annual Community Wishlist Survey, and for this year, we’ve
> > > decided to take a different approach. In the past, we've invited people
> > to
> > > write proposals for any features or fixes that they'd like to see, and
> > the
> > > Community Tech team has addressed the top ten wishes with the most
> > support
> > > votes. This year, we're just going to focus on the *non-Wikipedia
> content
> > > projects* (i.e. Wikibooks, Wiktionary, Wikiquote, Commons, Wikisource,
> > > Wikiversity, Wikispecies, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, and Wikinews), and
> we're
> > > only going to address the top five wishes from this survey. This is a
> big
> > > departure from the typical process. In the following year (2021), we’ll
> > > probably return to the traditional structure.
> > >
> > > So, why this change? We’ve been following the same format for years —
> > and,
> > > generally, it has lots of benefits. We build great tools, provide
> useful
> > > improvements, and have an impact on diverse communities. However, the
> > > nature of the format tends to prioritize the largest project
> (Wikipedia).
> > > This makes it harder to serve smaller projects, and many of their
> wishes
> > > never make it onto the wishlist. As a community-focused team, we want
> to
> > > support *all* projects. Thus, for 2020, we want to shine a light on
> > > non-Wikipedia projects.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, we’ll be accepting five wishes. Over the years, we’ve
> taken
> > on
> > > larger wishes (like Global Preferences
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech/Global_preferences> or
> > Who
> > > Wrote That
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech/Who_Wrote_That_tool>),
> > > which are awesome projects. At the same time, they tend to be lengthy
> > > endeavors, requiring extra time for research and development. When we
> > > looked at the 2019 wishlist, there were still many unresolved wishes.
> > > Meanwhile, we wanted to make room for the new 2020 wishes. For this
> > reason,
> > > we’ve decided to take on a shortened list, so we can address as many
> > wishes
> > > (new and remaining 2019 wishes
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_
> Survey_2019/Results
> > >)
> > > as possible.
> > >
> > > Overall, we look forward to this year’s survey. We worked with lots of
> > > folks (engineering, product management, and others) to think about how
> we
> > > could support underserved projects, all while preserving the dynamic
> and
> > > open nature of the wishlist. *Please let us know your thoughts
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Community_Wishlist_Survey_2020>*
> > > related
> > > to this change. In addition, we’ll begin thinking about the guidelines
> > for
> > > this new process, so *we want your feedback
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Community_Wishlist_Survey_2020>*
> > (on
> > > what sorts of processes/rules we may want to consider). Thank you, and
> > > we’re very curious to see the wishes in November!
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Ilana Fried
> > >
> > > Product Manager, Community Tech
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech>
> > > _______________________________________________
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