"cid" is exactly what I wanted to ask about as well. What I've learned is
that some wikis use an optional "cid" parameter
<https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cita#Parametro_cid_diverso_dal_cognome_autore>,
for example Italian Wikipedia's Template:Cita, that gives the rendered
contents a known HTML id anchor.  +1 if I understand correctly.  This
approach builds on web standards and even links elements beyond Cite refs.
By "merge or split" CIDs what I imagine is simply that: * the CID is
optional, * giving no CID results in an automatic anchor which should not
be reusable from wikitext), and * there is one CID per main ref, so merging
is done by relinking one main ref's subrefs over to the other main ref.

When you talk about a global CID namespace, I would be sure to avoid a
global uniqueness requirement at the moment, it's enough that a CID is
unique on its page and when transcluded.  +1 that this should become
possible in a later phase of the larger WikiCite <https://wikicite.org/>
project which builds on the current steps.

-Adam

On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 3:06 AM Samuel Klein <[email protected]> wrote:

> My preference, now that subreferencing exists, would be to converge on a
> future where we have some FRBR-style clustering of sources (similar to what
> fatcat.wiki does for the range of different URLs / content hashes that
> refer to the same source, but compounded with the range of different ways
> it can be cited), which assigns CIDs, and lets curators explicitly
> merge/split CIDs where needed.  Then we end up with one CID for each
> cluster of substantively identical sources.
>
> This matches what any meta-analysis of citation usage, citation affect,
> source reliability, retraction, &c would want to make bidirectional source
> analyses useful.  It's a bit of extra structural work up front, and would
> result in a CID namespace of O(100M) cited sources, but would be a clear
> and new public good useful immediately to our editors and to reuse and
> analysis beyond our projects.
>
> I'm not sure what that means in the *immediate* future, but just as
> fatcat did when choosing its battles, a recognition that we will start
> using a CID namespace that supports future merges would let us start small
> and potentially refactor initial uses via merges into any slightly
> different future implementations.
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 3:41 PM Strainu <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I hit the same problem recently. My solution was very similar to what
>> Adam proposed: build the same ref again (completely) and calculate the
>> hash. Since in rowiki all interaction with Wikidata is through modules, it
>> was trivial to extract the reference code and invoke it directly or from a
>> template.
>>
>> One nasty problem that I couldn't really solve nicely was that the CS1
>> module would add a templatestyle which on subst would be expanded to a
>> different strip marker for each instance, causing "reference with same name
>> and different content" errors. This meant I could use a template, but not
>> substitute it. If I understand your use case correctly, you won't have this
>> problem.
>>
>> When this feature becomes available, you could simply adapt the template
>> to generate the <ref extends> tag.
>>
>> Hth,
>>  Strainu
>>
>> Pe miercuri, 21 august 2024, Adam Wight <[email protected]> a
>> scris:
>> > Hi, I'm one of the developers working on this project.
>> > Thanks for the question!  Currently, the state of our thinking around
>> reusing refs from a template is that it's problematic, but the simplest and
>> safest existing workaround is to produce another ref in exactly the same
>> way as the first.  So if the CS1 family of templates is used (eg. Cite book
>> / Literatur) then you can use the same or a similar template to generate
>> the second ref, and if the parameters to CS1 match then your final refs
>> will be identical and the footnote markers will be merged together into one
>> symbol and one reflist item.
>> > The second possibility would require a feature change which has some
>> questionable implications: that any two refs with identical content could
>> be merged in reading mode, regardless of the "name" attribute.  However,
>> since the reference content can only be guaranteed to be identical if the
>> same template is used, I believe the first solution (use the same
>> underlying template and let it produce a name) is the best workaround for
>> the moment.
>> > Please do suggest any better ideas you might have...  so far, it's been
>> hard to imagine what a more "stable link" might look like, maybe it's an
>> explicit "cid" or HTML id, we're really not sure yet.
>> > Regards,
>> > [[mw:User:Adamw]]
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 10:47 AM Bináris <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have just experienced a related problem recently. I am not sure if
>> it is in the scope of your project, so I just mention it here.
>> >> Original problem: a reference is given in Wikidata as source of death,
>> for example. It appears automatically in infobox.
>> >> Later in the article I need that for another purpose, and it will
>> appear on tha pege twice.
>> >> Question: can we make it appear once?
>> >> Answer in huwiki: the link of Wikidata contains a hash, which can be
>> used as <ref name="this-hash"/>.
>> >> New problem: whenever the source is edited in Wikidata, the hash
>> regenerates, and the article will silently be spoiled. We can discover the
>> error in ref name only accidentlly, and it is a head ache to guess the
>> original.
>> >> Relation to this project: can we safely reuse the references
>> originating from Wikidata? Can it offer a stable link?
>> >> Or should I write this to Wikidata mailing list?
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> > --
>> > Adam Wight - Developer - Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. -
>> https://wikimedia.de
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>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
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