NVDA is an excellent Screen Reader and I have been using it myself.

I like the fact that NVDA is an open source project which means that anyone can 
access the software and get a very reliable product to boot as it happens.

When browsing the web I've found NVDA to be far better to use than Window-Eyes 
though not quite as good as JAWS but certainly acceptabel enough to use and who 
knows, the way NVDA is going may make my comments today history tomorrow, a new 
build came out only a few days ago.


On 06/04/2013, at 10:40 PM, Nicolai Svendsen <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I actually use NVDA on an everyday basis at this point, and I've found I can 
> work with NVDA's object navigation as a substitute for JAWS virtual cursor 
> and all those other cursors JAWS has. I actually find it a lot easier to use, 
> and it gives me a much better overview. I haven't found JAWS to work that 
> great with web applications either. Further, in NVDA 2013.1 NVDA receives 
> more support for Powerpoint applications and general Office improvements, and 
> that's actually working out quite well. At this rate I'm finding applications 
> that work better with NVDA, but I'd be curious to know which ones you use 
> often so I can file tickets and look into it. NVDA is open source, after all. 
> NVDA add-ons are very handy here, and they're just like JAWS scripts.
> 
> I don't plan to purchase my SMA for JAWS again, even if I'd had different 
> results than what I'm getting. I'd have to pay four SMAs to get my license 
> up-to-date, just in order to retain my serial number. That would cost $195 
> less than the standard license since their SMAs cost $200 now, but it's still 
> not worth it since things work pretty well for me at the moment. Plus, I 
> hardly need researching features in a screen-reading application, but I do 
> think Flexible Web is kind of interesting. You don't need that with VoiceOver 
> because a lot of these advertisements are contained within frames so 
> VoiceOver needs to interact first, but NVDA and JAWS don't. NVDA does if you 
> use object navigation, but NVDA groups lists and other elements together 
> which means you have to interact with it to read their content. I've mostly 
> seen this with lists though, so I suppose you could use that to navigate if 
> it's a big deal, but it's still a pretty interesting feature..
> 
> Both JAWS and NVDA rely on MSAA/IAccessible2, so you should actually get 
> pretty similar results unless the controls require extra work as is the case 
> with Powerpoint with both screen readers, so JAWS isn't excluded here. MSAA, 
> for instance, does not provide sufficient information. It does not allow you 
> to retrieve the location of the cursor, or retrieve individual units of text 
> in an editable text field, which is part of the issues with inaccessible 
> applications using these APIs.
> 
> Anyway, I won't go on a technical rant, so I hope this kind of makes sense!
> 
> Regards,
> Nicolai
> On Apr 6, 2013, at 8:57 AM, Dane Trethowan <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> You're quite right! there is a bit of Freedom Science Fiction bashing and 
>> with good reason, who can forget that disgraceful episode when Freedom 
>> Scientology took GW Micro to court over the issue of place markers, I 
>> believe that particular case was settled out of court.
>> 
>> Then there's the other case of Freedom Science Fiction deliberately trying 
>> to take a company out of business just because they had a name which just 
>> happened to use the word "Freedom" in it.
>> 
>> Thankfully the people at System Access had sense enough not to be 
>> intimidated and they changed their name, the rest of course is history, that 
>> being we now have yet another Screen Reader for Windows in the form of 
>> System Access, yet more competition to JAWS, Window-Eyes and so on which can 
>> only be a good thing.
>> 
>> Despite all the bashing as you put it, I'm prepared to give credit where its 
>> due and express my view thus, unless GW Micro do something such as a rewrite 
>> of many parts of Window-Eyes then they're going to see themselves swamped! 
>> by the competition and that's not a good thing.
>> 
>> I was most interested to hear your opinions on the Mac and I'm sorry you 
>> didn't get too far with that however I acknowledge without hesitation that 
>> the Mac is not for everything and I'm very pleased you tried it rather than 
>> pretending to try it and deliberately putting obstacles or doubts in your 
>> way and into other peoples minds.
>> 
>> I use a variety of platforms here for a variety of reasons and all have 
>> their good and bad points, advantages and disadvantages, likes and dislikes, 
>> pleasures and pains, weakness and strengths... well you get the drift 
>> <smile>.
>> 
>> 
>> On 06/04/2013, at 2:34 PM, David Griffith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> I know that Freedom Scientific bashing has been in vogue over the last few
>>> years. They are a commercial company and do not appear to have always
>>> unstinctingly operate in their customers best interests. Nevertheless I have
>>> been, in practice, reliant on their implementations of Jaws since 2006.  
>>> 
>>> As, with others,  I have resented the annual upgrage fee I have tried to
>>> make the break firstly with experimenting with exclusive use of NVDA on
>>> Windows, and then secondly by purchasing an iMac for voiceover usage.  Sadly
>>> in both circumstances I have had to return to windows and Jaws for serious
>>> Office productivity taks. When the pressure is on, and the chips are down,
>>> jaws is what I rely upon. I now conclude that in order to retain this
>>> productivity edge the yearly Upgrade cost for Jaws  is sadly the price I
>>> have to pay. There is no feasible way I could nowadays, for example , rely
>>> upon Jaws 11, NVDA or voiceover.
>>> 
>>> I cannot comment on Window eyes as I have never used it.
>>> Genrally though, with some exceptions, Jaws continues to provide the maximum
>>> accessibility for me.
>>> Whilst if I had to, I could survive without forking out for Jaws every year,
>>> and use NVDA, I would need at least a demo copy of Jaws to assist me with
>>> difficult access.
>>> 
>>> The lack of a virtual screen cursor in NVDA means that there are some
>>> situations where only Jaws wil do.
>>> 
>>> There are a few happy circumstances where NVDA will outperform Jaws, for
>>> example in gaining limited access to the generally inaccessible Calibre
>>> Ebook software, but these are the exception rather than the rule.
>>> Where access is difficult only Jaws can often solve problems.
>>> For example the other week I had an inaccessible interface to deal with ,
>>> The Adobe Music Importer for the Amazon cloud Player.
>>> Using Virtual OCR, and then  reviewing the results with the Jaws cursor and
>>> performing virtual mouse clicks I was able to get some functionality out of
>>> a program which would have been impossible with NVDA or Voiceover on the
>>> Mac. It was clunky, requiring me to run OCR multiple  times as the screen
>>> was updated but I got it to work after a fashion.
>>> More importanly, For Office productivity,  Jaws and Microsoft Office remains
>>> the only serious option for me.
>>> I am managing to stick with Office 2003 but I am heavily reliant on Jaws for
>>> table management,  header and style management, index and content creation
>>> and so on.
>>> I also have become increasingly reliant on the Jaws text Analyser tool over
>>> the last 24 months to produce professional looking output. I know of no
>>> screen reader which provides equivalent text analysis functionality, though
>>> it is possible Window Eyes does. Certainly NVDA and voiceover on the Mac do
>>> not cut the mustard here. It was not until I started to use Text analyser a
>>> couple of years ago that I realised the formatting and presentational errors
>>> I was creating.  My reliance on sighted proof reading has plummetted since I
>>> started utilising this and other tools.
>>> 
>>> A similar experience is provided on the web.  Whilst NVDA and Voiceover
>>> provide feasible web access, and occasionally outperform Jaws, in genral
>>> only Jaws will do.
>>> 
>>> The bafflingly complicated and restricted text selection  limtations of
>>> Safari with Voiceover make it impractical for rapid academic searches. Some
>>> elements, including some headers are impossible to select and copy with
>>> Voiceover except by using last phrase copied. It is impossible to copy more
>>> than a paragraph because of the text interactional limits unless you want to
>>> select and copy the entire web page. I could survive with various strategies
>>> with Safari and Voiceover but it just takes too much time to flexibly
>>> extract the content of web pages I need. NVDA is better and sometimes more
>>> stable but I find the fasterst browsing experience remains with jaws.
>>> 
>>> I invested a lot of time looking at the potential of NVDA and voiceover as
>>> alternatives to Jaws. In practice still I play with Voiceover and NVDA, but
>>> work with Jaws. I wish it were not so and that the fre screen reading
>>> alternatives provided feasible office comdpetition that I could rely upon.
>>> At the moment they do not. Nobody has ever been able to demonstrate to me
>>> that the Mac currently a viable serious Office platform  for a blind user,
>>> though some limited functionality is certainly possible if your needs are
>>> not that great and you are prepared to work at it. 
>>> I saw only yesterday somebody trying to defend Office functionality on the
>>> mac by saying she simply bans people from sending table formatted matgerial
>>> to her.  This is not a serious  response and would be considered eccentric
>>> and probelmatic in most of the jobs I have done over the years.  It is only
>>> a feasible response if you want to remain a non professinal amateur dabbling
>>> on the fringes of access.  A strategy reliant on instructing the Department
>>> of Health not to use tables in the material they sent to me when I was an
>>> NHS Manager  is so absurd as to be ridiculous.
>>> In practice whilst using NVDA on a Windows platform is more feasible than
>>> voiceover on the Mac for office usage, it also lacks some crucial tools. 
>>> 
>>> David Griffith
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dane Trethowan
>>> Sent: 06 April 2013 02:54
>>> To: Windows Access; Share Your Enthusiasm!
>>> Subject: The Word Is Out!
>>> 
>>> Okay, I'm not afraid whatever to admit if I'm wrong and I certainly have
>>> been wrong when it comes to good Screen Reading software, JAWS and
>>> Window-Eyes.
>>> 
>>> I've been using JAWS 13.0 for the last 4 weeks or so and - in my opinion -
>>> accessibility to Windows software thanks to JAWS blows GW Micro away and
>>> that's a shame as Window-Eyes is far behind in several crucial areas.
>>> 
>>> the most obvious is the Internet browsing facilities, and another is
>>> training material - material to help new and old users alike - become
>>> familiar with the Screen Reader and associated Windows Applications,
>>> concepts etc.
>>> 
>>> Most people on list would know what I'm talking about so I needen't say any
>>> more but I will say that I've decided to put my money where my mouth is, I
>>> ordered JAWS yesterday.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> **********
>>> 
>>> Dane Trethowan
>>> Skype: grtdane12
>>> Phone US (213) 438-9741
>>> Phone Australia (03) 9005 8589
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> **********
>> 
>> Dane Trethowan
>> Skype: grtdane12
>> Phone US (213) 438-9741
>> Phone Australia (03) 9005 8589
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> =======================================
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>> 
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> 
> =======================================
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> To post to this group, please send your message to:
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> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> [email protected]


**********

Dane Trethowan
Skype: grtdane12
Phone US (213) 438-9741
Phone Australia (03) 9005 8589



=======================================

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