[Winona Online Democracy] Hello Winona Online Democracy,
Great discussion about the possible Wilson Township annexation and traffic problems in Winona! This will be fun to disagree with Phil Carlson on something since I normally agree with him. Though I do admit I wish it wasn't an issue he was an expert in. ;-> Economics and numbers are very important in planning and land use problems like this. However... I think our unspoken assumptions and philosophies may even be more important. Here are some examples: ----- 1. Are bigger and better the same thing? Can we seperate those two very different concepts in our minds? Is it possible that sometimes bigger is a negative thing? When we speak of growth, do we automatically assume that bigger is better? Why? Should we be focussing on better, not bigger cities? 2. Growth in children, plants, animals, and other living things is a beautiful and downright spiritual process. Are increasing numbers of cities, roads, factories, homes, and plastic products the same kind of "growth?" Could our language be more precise so our thoughts and conversations are more clear? Should we divide the different kinds of "growth" into two or more words? How many words do the Greeks have for the different kinds of love? 3. "Dealing with traffic problems by building more roads is like dealing with your weight problem by loosening your belt." I once read something like that. Do you agree? If so, how does it apply to County Hwy 17, Mankato Ave, Hwy 14, et al? Are there alternatives? 4. Is it accurate or wise to plan for the next 40-50 years based on what has happened over the past 40-50 years? Can average home sizes continue to double while the number of people living in them continue to shrink, ironically, almost in half? Talk about increased roof tops, heating needs, road requirements, plastic products et al. 5. Phil mentioned in one of his first posts that growth happens and there is no use trying to stop or ignore it. I hear this sentiment all the time. The horses are already out of the barn. The train has already left the station and there is no way to stop it. But are there other trains on the same track and moving toward a head-on collision with the "growth" train? What about the world population explosion? What is the earth's carrying capacity? Is this "growth" sustainable? It took roughly 1,000 years of human history for the entire earth's population to increase by approximately 95 million. Today roughly 95 million people are added in a SINGLE year. We lose millions of acres of farm land around the world every year to development, pollution, and soil erosion. For all you baby boomers out there, these may not be issues you have to think about or deal with but for the younger generations, it is already becoming a HUGE change in how we think and act, even if we are not yet aware of it. 6. How does our current economic system force us to "grow" or die? Are there other options? Why do we have to mass produce consumers? How has that need warped our media, values, and politics? What does producing discontent mean? Have material things made us happier? Why is consumerism a more powerful force than religion in most people's lives today? ----- What does all this have to do with the Phillips property annexatioin and Wilson Township? I believe everything. A group of teenagers who think they will live forever and that it doesn't matter what choices they make will think and act one way. A group of mature adults who realize they will one day die and that their choices affect their children and grandchildren will think and act another way. Most of our economic and political thought is in the teenage thinking mode. If we step back and look at the bigger picture, we may change how we think. If we change how we think, we may change how we act and what decisions we make. The issue of annexation in Wilson Township is not really about numbers or politics. It's about how we think about and view the issue, our world, and ourselves. If we changed the assumptions about "growth" and happiness, would we change what we decide about Wilson Township? It's after 11:00 p.m., it's late at night, at least for boring folk like me. Most people have probably long since stopped reading this e-mail since I'm rambling on. I'm sorry about that. My life sometimes seems one big blur of meetings, agendas, running kids around, and small details. I rarely get the chance to engage in the realm of ideas. For those brave souls who stuck around. Please don't dismiss my questions as a simple Luddite who is opposed to change. On the contrary, I'm all for growth and change. But is that the same thing as increased numbers of houses, cars, roads, plastic things, etc.? We are not just solving an issue of annexation in Wilson Township. We are also either helping or making worst the problems of pollution, hunger, material poverty, spiritual poverty, and other big problems. These are local issues because the problems won't be solved by someone in St. Paul, Washington D.C., or elsewhere. We have to solve these global problems in one small corner of the world at a time. Thats all. What do others think? What do you suggest we do about Wilson Township? Dwayne Voegeli June 22, 2004 ------------------- > >[Winona Online Democracy] > >Again Jan Turek raises thoughtful questions. I certainly don't have all the >answers and am not as close to the situation as most of the rest of you. I >think Jan raises a very important question when she talks about what is >"city" and what is "country". Reasonable people will disagree over what is >the appropriate density to develop, but I would challenge one statement in >Jan's last post - "if you build a city in the country, then you no longer >have the country". I think the opposite is true. Building at higher >density in a part of the country leaves more open space for a longer time >than allowing sparse development over a larger area. An example: > >* 100 acres of beautiful pasture land nestled in the bluffs - this is >clearly "the country". > >A: 40 new homes on 2.5 acres each creates a neighborhood on the entire 100 >acres - not quite "city" density, but the "country" is gone - no more >pasture, no more cows and horses. I think this density would be roughly >similar to Springbrook out in Pleasant Valley (I don't want to pick on >Springbrook). > >B: 40 new homes on 1/4-acre lots takes up 10 acres, leaving 90 acres of >pasture for everyone, including the cows and horses, to enjoy, at least for >a few more years. > >Which example is city, which is country? Which leaves more of the >environment intact? Is two acres of mowed lawn "country"? > >Jan asks about my connection to the city and to development in the area. I >am a planning consultant, not a developer. I have worked for developers, >mostly in the Twin Cities area, but also for dozens of cities and counties >in Minnesota (Burnsville, Roseville, Vadnais Heights, Orono, St. Cloud, Sauk >Rapids, Little Falls, Alexandria, Mower County, Isanti County, Hennepin >County, and many others). Our firm (Dahlgren, Shardlow, and Uban, or DSU) >worked for the City of Winona several years ago in the annexation case >involving Winona Township. My partner John Shardlow did most of that work >and testified for the City. Mr. Shardlow was approached by a potential >developer very recently about assisting with some land development in the >Winona area, but as of now we do not have any professional connection to >proposed developments in the area, although we may soon. That contact came >about after this thread of comments on annexation came up on WOD, but not as >a result of it. > >Phil Carlson, Minneapolis > > >_______________________________________________ >This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org > ------------ Dwayne Voegeli Winona County Commissioner, District #2 (507) 453-9012 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 359 Pleasant Hill Dr. Winona, MN 55987 ------------ _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
