[Winona Online Democracy]
People who say they do not like any of the candidates need to realize
that most of us make choices every day based on the best choice not what we
want. In short not a excuse.
Money corruption I agree with. The Promise example in Wisconsin was the
best example of not spending to buy a election, but being with and of the
people to win.
Mistrust is another serious problem on all sides, but without trust no one
would do anything. I submit there is more trust than we realize. I know I
couldn't do what I do if I didn't trust people.
Democracy will always be debated. Our problem now seems to be more the
"Mentality of a Nanny Government" that through mistrust is pushing us
towards a socialist system where corporations have assets, individuals work,
but the government takes the fruits of the labor.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dwayne Voegeli
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:15 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Winona] Your Vote Matters
[Winona Online Democracy]
I fear the voting numbers that Craig gave, sad as they may be, or actually
worst.
I don't believe we've hit 60% in any kind of presidential election in a
very long time. Maybe never if you trully count eligible voters and not
just registered voters. That is a huge difference.
Voter turnout in America is either the worst or among the worst rates in
the industrialized world.
Why is that?
There is no one single simple reason but some of the reason are well known
and well documented. They include:
1. Lack of choices: The more political parties and candidates the people
have to choose from, the more people vote. Voter turn out levels were at
record highs when Jesse Ventura, Ralph Nader, Ross Perot, and other so
called third party candidates ran in the past. I apologize to all of my
Democratic and Republican friends but two parties just don't cut it in a
huge and very diverse country like ours. They have rigged the system to
form a two party monopoly and try to prevent simple reforms like IRV,
Instant Runoff Voting, and others from rocking their boats.
2. Money Corruption: Many people have a negative attitude about politics
because most people know at some level that the process is controlled by
money. That then means the rich and powerful control the system. Why
should the small guy even bother? It use to be that the Republicans were
the millionaire's club but now it seems you also have to be a millionaire
to run as a Democrat (i.e. Mark Dayton, Herb Kohl, et al). Publicly funded
campaigns that are optional would be a huge improvement. Maine and Arizona
already have them for their state races. Of course that's easier said than
done because many groups benefit from the status quo. Good luck trying to
change a system that the huge media, insurance, and drug corporations
control. For the record, the huge unions don't seem to interested in real
reforms either.
Here are some other reasons that may be open to discussion and/or debate...
3. We live in a country that was created with an intentional and
fundamental mistrust of the common people. Some important improvements
have been made (abolition of slavery, women's rights, direct election of
U.S. Senators, etc.) but we still have relics of that elitist age. The
Electoral College and winner take all systems are but a few examples.
4. Our democracy has been turned into a shallow and insipid media circus.
We are spectators and not participants in the democratic system. It's like
calling people who watch football on Sundays, athletes. The media has
great potential but it also has a potential to do negative things. I
sometimes wonder what would happen if people stopped watching t.v. and
listening to the radio for the 3-4 months before the election. What if we
read and had real discussions instead? The media's low standards and
shallowness have dragged our democracy down. Of course it's difficult to
have real media reform until we get real voting reforms.
5. Our country's size. The ancient Athenians believed the ideal size for
a democracy was between 5,000-10,000 citizens. When our country was formed
it's population was only a little bigger than what Minnesota is today and
Minnsota is a very small state population wise today.
A little historical perspective about our democracy is that we didn't set
the
House of Representatives at 435 in 1776. It was set as a ratio, one rep
for every 60,000. During WWII Congress said, that's enough, the capitol is
full, we're going to stop. Today it's about 600,000 per U.S.
Representative.
How often will you meet Gil Gutnechkt? Then again, it's not his fault.
Our First Congressional District now stretches from the Mississippi River
all the way to the Dakotas.
Can our current system really be called a democracy anymore?
Remember that ancient Rome used to be a republic but then it morphed into
an empire over time. They still went through the motions of being a
democracy but the reality had changed and most people did not see it
happening. Before long the aristocrats and nobles had twisted the system
back to their benefit.
Not one democracy has survived in history. One of the main reasons
democracies have fallen is that the aristocrats and nobles of the time
always fight to reverse any democratic gains that may have been made in the
past.
Is America today run for the benefit of all?
Is or has America turned into an empire?
Is that a good thing?
Is that inevitable? Are there alternatives?
Could we return power from the federal government back to the states and
even further down the line?
6. Our schools don't really teach democracy. We talk about democracy but
we don't practice what we preach. John Dewey pointed out that problem at
the turn of the last century. Our society will only be as democratic as
our schools are.
There are other important reasons but I'll stop there. I've been told I
write too much in my e-mails.
School starts tommorrow. Now I can torture my students with context.
;->
Dwayne
August 29, 2004
---------
>From: "Robert Kaldunski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Craig Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "WOD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Winona] Your Vote Matters
>Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:30:22 -0500
>
>[Winona Online Democracy]
>
>Craig, The information that you prvided does not surprise me, there are two
>main reasons (I believe) for this. 1. Lack of interest ora feeling of
>hopelessness to be able to do anything to correct the problem the Nation is
>facing. 2. This one is teh easiest, it is the syndrome called LAZINESS,
>inother words This or that person is going to win so why should I bother.
>I always Vote in Gereal Elections and would vote in more Primaries if the
>primary elections elections allowed for split votes. Bob Kaldunski,
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Craig Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "WOD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:05 AM
>Subject: [Winona] Your Vote Matters
>
>
>> [Winona Online Democracy]
>>
>> forwarded by Craig Brooks
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Steven Clift
>> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:30 PM
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: [ET] Your Vote Matters
>>
>>
>>
>> Go to: http://www.registrationbyworkingassets.com/friends?ref=3413035
>>
>> Dear friend,
>>
>> The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a President and senators and
>> congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country.
>>
>> -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
>>
>> Did you know that only 60 percent of the voting age population in the
>United
>> States actually votes?
>>
>> Your Vote Matters from Working Assets offers an easy way to register to
>> vote, update your name and/or address on voter rolls, or change your
party
>> affiliation.
>>
>> You can also find out how to volunteer to help with voter registration
and
>> get out the vote efforts in your community, and sign up to stay informed
>> about election issues.
>>
>> Just go to http://www.registrationbyworkingassets.com/friends?ref=3413035
>>
>> I hope you will join me in this effort. Together we can make a
difference.
>>
>> P.S. Please forward this message to anyone that you know who might be
>> interested
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Edem-info mailing list
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/edem-info
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy
>> All messages must be signed by the senders actual name.
>> No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list.
>> To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit
>> http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona
>> Any problems or suggestions can be directed to
>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact
>page at
>> http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy
>All messages must be signed by the senders actual name.
>No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list.
>To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit
>http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona
>Any problems or suggestions can be directed to
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact
page at
> http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
>
------------
Dwayne Voegeli
Winona County Commissioner
(507) 453-9012
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
359 Pleasant Hill Dr.
Winona, MN 55987
------------
_______________________________________________
This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy
All messages must be signed by the senders actual name.
No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list.
To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit
http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona
Any problems or suggestions can be directed to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page
at
http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004
_______________________________________________
This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy
All messages must be signed by the senders actual name.
No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list.
To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit
http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona
Any problems or suggestions can be directed to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at
http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
