Re: [Winona] Instant Runoff Voting (IRV): Local Costs and Examples

Roy Nasstrom Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:14:14 -0700

[Winona Online Democracy]

The adoption of Instant Runoff Voting would constitute a useful reform of the voting system..

It does have some problems. Under most versions, it is possible that in a multi-candidate election a bloc of voters could deliberately rank a candidate lower than others in order to give him/her a better chance of winning. Moreover, Implementation will undoubtedly have some glitches. As many probably know, both logistical and software problems in San Francisco last year held blocked for several days the results of the first vote under the system.

Overall, however, the problems are no greater than those under the current voting system, and IRV is advantageous in terms of economy and of reflecting voters' wishes fairly. The recommendation by the League of Women Voters may give impetus to ultimate adoption, although it is questionable whether many citizens in this area would now see it as a high priority. Nevertheless it is worth pushing.

(In 1915, the Minnesota Supreme Court in Brown v. Smallwood rejected Duluth's IRV variation on the basis of the unconstitutionality of allowing one vote to be counted twice. The present proposals do not allow double counting in final results.)

Roy Nasstrom

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Voegeli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:26 AM Subject: [Winona] Instant Runoff Voting (IRV): Local Costs and Examples

[Winona Online Democracy]
Coming back to the subject of Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)...
The article that Phil Carlson had sent to the Winona Online Democracy list
and that is included below is a good one.
To summarize the main points in the article:
------
IRV is a relatively simple voting reform that has these three main
advantages over our current system:
1. Saves money
2. More accurate
3. And requires a majority victory, a supposed bedrock of our democracy but something our current voting system does not require. Plurarlity, yes. Majority, no.
-----
I did a little research and here are some rough costs to our local
governments and taxpayers for primary elections.
A. Winona County Costs: at least $12,000 (according to the County
Auditor, Cherie MacLennan)
B. City of Winona Costs: at least $11,465 (according to the City Clerk,
Monica Hennessy Mohan)
There are also other costs to School Boards, townships, and for staffing but for conversation sake let's use a rough number of $24,000 for a cost of a local primary to local taxpayers.
------
Craig Brooks asked for a local example of Instant Runnoff Voting (IRV).
He suggested using my 2002 local race as an example.
O.K.
Instead of voting twice, once in a primary in September and once in the
general election in November, the voter could have voted just one time.
There were three choices: (listed alphabetically)
Dan Brown
Mike Haney
Dwayne Voegeli
All the voter has to do is to rank their votes in order of preference in
one vote.
For example, put a number one behind Mike Haney's name, a number two behind Dan Brown's name, and a number three behind Dwayne Voegeli's name.
Or just vote for two of them.
Or just vote for one of them.
You do NOT have to vote for more than one person. Only if you like more
than one candidate.
It's like ranking your top two or three or four or whatever number of t.v.
shows or football teams.
Does that example make sense?
-----
Another good example would be local School Board elections.
Last time there were 10 candidates for the two At-Large spots and no primary.
Another example would be City Council races. There were 4 candidates for
the one At-Large spot. Instead of voting twice, just vote once and save
all that money, have a more accurate record of the people's wishes, and
require a majority victory by one candidate.
-----
It's really quite simple.
Once people see how easy it is, they will quickly get past the
fear-of-doing-something-new-stage.
We could also make it happen for our local elections.
I could go on and on about IRV, there are many countries and national organizations within the U.S. that already use the system. The city of San Francisco adopted it about two years ago.
But I'll stop for now.
Others thoughts or questions?
Dwayne Voegeli
April 11, 2005
---------
[Winona Online Democracy]
Craig and others,
I googled IRV and found the following.
Phil Carlson, Mpls
--------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions About Instant Runoff Voting
What is instant runoff voting? Instant runoff voting is a method of electing a single winner. It provides an alternative to plurality and runoff elections. In a plurality election, the highest vote getter wins even if s/he receives less than 50% of the vote. In a runoff election, two candidates advance to a runoff if no candidate receives more than 50% in the first round.
 How does it work? Voters rank candidates in order of choice: 1, 2, 3 and
so on. It takes a majority to win. If anyone receives a majority of the
first choice votes, that candidate is elected. If not, the last place
candidate is defeated, just as in a runoff election, and all ballots are
counted again, but this time each ballot cast for the defeated candidate
counts for the next choice candidate listed on the ballot. The process of
eliminating the last place candidate and recounting the ballots continues
until one candidate receives a majority of the vote. With modern voting
equipment, all of the counting and recounting takes place rapidly and
automatically.
 IRV acts like a series of runoff elections in which one candidate is
eliminated each election. Each time a candidate is eliminated, all voters
get to choose among the remaining candidates. This continues until one
candidate receives a majority of the vote.
Isn't this too complex for the voter? No. All the voter has to do is rank one or more candidates. It's like renting a video or picking an ice cream: What video (or flavor) do you want? That's your first choice. If they don't have that video (or flavor), what would you like? That's your second choice. If they don't have that, what's your third pick? That's all there is to it. It's as easy as 1-2-3.

Doesn't this give extra votes to supporters of defeated candidates? No. In each round, every voter's ballot counts for exactly one candidate. In this respect, it's just like a two-round runoff election. You vote for your favorite candidate in the first round. If your candidate advances to the second round, you keep supporting that candidate. If not, you get to pick among the remaining candidates. In IRV candidates gets eliminated one at a time, and each time, all voters get to select among the remaining candidates. At each step of the ballot counting, every voter has exactly one vote for a continuing candidate. That's why the Courts have upheld the constitutionality of IRV.

Does IRV eliminate "spoilers" and vote-splitting? Yes. In multiple-candidate races, like-minded constituencies such as Latinos, liberals, conservatives, etc. can split their vote among their own competing candidates, allowing a candidate with less overall support to prevail. IRV allows those voters to rank all of their candidates and watch as votes transfer to their candidate with the most support. In partisan races, IRV prevents the possibility of a third party candidate "spoiling" the race by taking enough votes from one major candidate to elect the other.

Does IRV save money? Yes. Traditional two-round, "delayed" runoffs are common around the country. IRV halves the cost of those elections because it determines a majority winner in a single election. Before adopting IRV, for example, San Francisco spent as much as $2 million on each election in its delayed runoff, and statewide runoffs in places such as Texas cost far more. In addition, many states and cities use two rounds of special elections to fill vacated seats and instead could elect a popular winner with IRV in one round of voting. In such situations IRV also reduces the reliance of candidates on special interest donors because they only have to campaign and raise money for one election rather than two.

Does IRV affect voter turnout? Yes. Turnout generally increases. IRV gives every voter incentive to participate because your vote still counts even if your first choice candidate is defeated. Also, since IRV only requires one election, the decisive election takes place when turnout is highest, typically November.

Does IRV affect campaign debate? Yes. Because IRV may require second and third choice votes to win, candidates have incentive to focus on the issues, to attract voters to their positions and to form coalitions. Negative campaigning and personal attacks are much less effective in an IRV election.

Where is IRV used? Many places. Ireland uses IRV to elects its president, Australia to elect its House of Representatives, London to elect its mayor, San Francisco to elect its major city offices such as mayor, Utah Republicans to nominate congressional nominees at its state convention, many major universities for their student government elections and the American Political Science Association to elect its president. Literally hundreds of jurisdictions, organizations and corporations use IRV to elect leaders.

Whom does IRV advantage? IRV advantages the majority, since it ensures that a minority of voters can never defeat a candidate supported by a majority. It also gives the voter more power, since s/he can express a range of choices.

Can the voting equipment handle IRV? Modern voting equipment, such as optical scanners and computer touch screens, can handle IRV at no additional cost. Older technologies such as punch cards and lever machines cannot handle IRV, so it doesn't make sense to adopt IRV until new equipment is purchased. In these cases, we recommend legislation authorizing the use of IRV when the equipment is available. For reasons unrelated to IRV, the trend in voting equipment is away from the older technologies, so more and more jurisdictions are acquiring equipment that can handle IRV.

Why don't more places use IRV? Prior to the advent of modern vote counting equipment, IRV required a time-consuming and costly hand count. Some jurisdictions that used IRV in statewide primaries found that they rarely had plurality (less than majority) winners, so IRV seemed unnecessary. With today's diversity and proliferation of parties and candidates, low plurality winners are more common, and hand counts are unnecessary.

Who opposes IRV? Little organized opposition to IRV exists. Election officials are understandably cautious about a system that may increase their workload, and some incumbents fear any change to the system that elected them. If you can win an election under a plurality or runoff system, however, the odds are that you would also win under IRV. The exceptions are rare but can be important. Examples include several recent House races in New Mexico, where Green Party candidates threw races to Republicans, and state legislative races in Alaska in which Libertarians and Alaskan Independent Party candidates knocked off Republicans.

Some political minorities may believe that they can only win representation in a plurality election. Such groups may oppose IRV, but of course, in such situations, a larger groups stands to gain representation by IRV.
 What is Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)?
 Advances for IRV
 The Case for IRV
 National Topics
 In the States
 IRV vs Runoff
 Media Coverage
 Editorial Support of IRV
 Get Involved
 Frequently Asked Questions
 Election Administration and Statutory Language
 Links
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Craig Brooks
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:10 PM
To: WOD
Subject: Re: [Winona] League of Women Voters of Minnesota endorses
InstantRunoff Voting
[Winona Online Democracy]
Dwayne -
I don't think the article described how Instant
Runnoff Voting would work. Could you give us an
example? Perhaps you could use your last race to show
how it worked versus how it would have worked from the
voters perspective under IRV.
Craig Brooks
--- Dwayne Voegeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[Winona Online Democracy]
Here is some good news regarding election reforms in
Minnesota.
Where would be some possible local elections to try
this election reform?
Dwayne Voegeli
March 31, 2005
 <()?))>
 Craig
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>Craig and others,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I googled IRV and found the following.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Phil Carlson, Mpls</DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frequently Asked Questions About Instant Runoff Voting</DIV> <H2 align=center><IMG height=5 src="http://www.fairvote.org/_themes/cvd/divider.gif"; width=388></H2> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> What is instant runoff voting? Instant runoff voting is a method of electing a single winner. It provides an alternative to plurality and runoff elections. In a plurality election, the highest vote getter wins even if s/he receives less than 50% of the vote. In a runoff election, two candidates advance to a runoff if no candidate receives more than 50% in the first round. How does it work? Voters rank candidates in order of choice: 1, 2, 3 and so on. It takes a majority to win. If anyone receives a majority of the first choice votes, that candidate is elected. If not, the last place candidate is defeated, just as in a runoff election, and all ballots are counted again, but this time each ballot cast for the defeated candidate counts for the next choice candidate listed on the ballot. The process of eliminating the last place candidate and recounting the ballots continues until one candidate receives a majority of the vote. With modern voting equipment, all of the counting and recounting takes place rapidly and automatically. IRV acts like a series of runoff elections in which one candidate is eliminated each election. Each time a candidate is eliminated, all voters get to choose among the remaining candidates. This continues until one candidate receives a majority of the vote. Isn’t this too complex for the voter? No. All the voter has to do is rank one or more candidates. It’s like renting a video or picking an ice cream: What video (or flavor) do you want? That’s your first choice. If they don’t have that video (or flavor), what would you like? That’s your second choice. If they don’t have that, what’s your third pick? That’s all there is to it. It’s as easy as 1-2-3. Doesn’t this give extra votes to supporters of defeated candidates? No. In each round, every voter’s ballot counts for exactly one candidate. In this respect, it’s just like a two-round runoff election. You vote for your favorite candidate in the first round. If your candidate advances to the second round, you keep supporting that candidate. If not, you get to pick among the remaining candidates. In IRV candidates gets eliminated one at a time, and each time, all voters get to select among the remaining candidates. At each step of the ballot counting, every voter has exactly one vote for a continuing candidate. That’s why the Courts have upheld the constitutionality of IRV. Does IRV eliminate "spoilers" and vote-splitting? Yes. In multiple-candidate races, like-minded constituencies such as Latinos, liberals, conservatives, etc. can split their vote among their own competing candidates, allowing a candidate with less overall support to prevail. IRV allows those voters to rank all of their candidates and watch as votes transfer to their candidate with the most support. In partisan races, IRV prevents the possibility of a third party candidate "spoiling" the race by taking enough votes from one major candidate to elect the other. Does IRV save money? Yes. Traditional two-round, "delayed" runoffs are common around the country. IRV halves the cost of those elections because it determines a majority winner in a single election. Before adopting IRV, for example, San Francisco spent as much as $2 million on each election in its delayed runoff, and statewide runoffs in places such as Texas cost far more. In addition, many states and cities use two rounds of special elections to fill vacated seats and instead could elect a popular winner with IRV in one round of voting. In such situations IRV also reduces the reliance of candidates on special interest donors because they only have to campaign and raise money for one election rather than two. Does IRV affect voter turnout? Yes. Turnout generally increases. IRV gives every voter incentive to participate because your vote still counts even if your first choice candidate is defeated. Also, since IRV only requires one election, the decisive election takes place when turnout is highest, typically November. Does IRV affect campaign debate? Yes. Because IRV may require second and third choice votes to win, candidates have incentive to focus on the issues, to attract voters to their positions and to form coalitions. Negative campaigning and personal attacks are much less effective in an IRV election. Where is IRV used? Many places. Ireland uses IRV to elects its president, Australia to elect its House of Representatives, London to elect its mayor, San Francisco to elect its major city offices such as mayor, Utah Republicans to nominate congressional nominees at its state convention, many major universities for their student government elections and the American Political Science Association to elect its president. Literally hundreds of jurisdictions, organizations and corporations use IRV to elect leaders. Whom does IRV advantage? IRV advantages the majority, since it ensures that a minority of voters can never defeat a candidate supported by a majority. It also gives the voter more power, since s/he can express a range of choices. Can the voting equipment handle IRV? Modern voting equipment, such as optical scanners and computer touch screens, can handle IRV at no additional cost. Older technologies such as punch cards and lever machines cannot handle IRV, so it doesn’t make sense to adopt IRV until new equipment is purchased. In these cases, we recommend legislation authorizing the use of IRV when the equipment is available. For reasons unrelated to IRV, the trend in voting equipment is away from the older technologies, so more and more jurisdictions are acquiring equipment that can handle IRV. Why don’t more places use IRV? Prior to the advent of modern vote counting equipment, IRV required a time-consuming and costly hand count. Some jurisdictions that used IRV in statewide primaries found that they rarely had plurality (less than majority) winners, so IRV seemed unnecessary. With today’s diversity and proliferation of parties and candidates, low plurality winners are more common, and hand counts are unnecessary. Who opposes IRV? Little organized opposition to IRV exists. Election officials are understandably cautious about a system that may increase their workload, and some incumbents fear any change to the system that elected them. If you can win an election under a plurality or runoff system, however, the odds are that you would also win under IRV. The exceptions are rare but can be important. Examples include several recent House races in New Mexico, where Green Party candidates threw races to Republicans, and state legislative races in Alaska in which Libertarians and Alaskan Independent Party candidates knocked off Republicans. Some political minorities may believe that they can only win representation in a plurality election. Such groups may oppose IRV, but of course, in such situations, a larger groups stands to gain representation by IRV. <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/whatis2.htm";>What is Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)?</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/irvadvances.htm";>Advances for IRV</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/talking.htm";>The Case for IRV</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/national.htm";>National Topics</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/states.htm";>In the States</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/irv_v_runoff.htm";>IRV vs Runoff</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/news.htm";>Media Coverage</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/commentaries.htm";>Editorial Support of IRV</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/involved.htm";>Get Involved</A> Frequently Asked Questions <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/electadmin.htm";>Election Administration and Statutory Language</A> <A href="http://www.fairvote.org/irv/links.htm";>Links</A> </BLOCKQUOTE> -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [<A href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]< /A>]On Behalf Of Craig Brooks Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:10 PM To: WOD Subject: Re: [Winona] League of Women Voters of Minnesota endorses InstantRunoff Voting [Winona Online Democracy] Dwayne - I don't think the article described how Instant Runnoff Voting would work.  Could you give us an example?  Perhaps you could use your last race to show how it worked versus how it would have worked from the voters perspective under IRV. Craig Brooks --- Dwayne Voegeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Winona Online Democracy] > > Here is some good news regarding election reforms in > Minnesota. > > Where would be some possible local elections to try > this election reform? > > Dwayne Voegeli > > March 31, 2005   <()?))>      Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___________________________________________ ____ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit <A href="http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona"; target=_blank>http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona</A> Any problems or suggestions can be directed to <A href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at  <A href="http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org"; target=_blank>http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org</A> </BODY></HTML>

_______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
------------
Dwayne Voegeli
Winona County Commissioner
(507) 453-9012
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
359 Pleasant Hill Dr.
Winona, MN 55987
------------
_______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org

_______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org

Re: [Winona] Instant Runoff Voting (IRV): Local Costs and Examples

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