[Winona Online Democracy] Wow Daren, you have summed up the major issues with City planning going on right now very well. I would like to throw a question out to the City Council and planners who watch this site (and I know there are a few). Why are you so reluctant to work with the other governments? I have said this many times, Winona is small enough to still be a COMMUNITY (Townships included). It does not need to be City vs Township, vs County. Let's get on board guys and do it right. Most people are not against growth. We have something very special in Winona and we all know it. There is a way to maintain a balance of the beauty, and protected lands and still grow, but it needs to be thought out and planned. I know there has been talk about LaCrosse's protection of bluffs, but if you drive through LaCrosse and Onalaska, it was put in place too late. The beauty is gone and you have wide spread concrete. Let's not turn into this. It has got to be difficult for the City to be constantly battling people who are against their planning due to environmental issues and traffic concerns. Let's all be proactive and get it figured out. Let's be better stewy arts of tax money by better planning and governing. Janice Turek
Quoting Daren Engler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [Winona Online Democracy] > > Hello all, > Both C.E and David talk of at least one common complaint - no long term > planning on the part of the city. I would agree. Probably a better way to > word it would be to say "the city does long term planning and does have long > term plans, but they do not stick to the plans" - thus creating the problems > that you both talk about. > I'm not familiar with any issues concerning the riverfront/marina plans > or actions by city council, but I am familiar with a few issues concerning > recent (1 - 2 years) actions by city council about other planning problems. > The traffic problem in the Mankato Avenue and Hwy 61 area are due to not > having the proper infrastructure in place before allowing growth and > development to take place. Take the Knopp Valley intersection as another > example of this. Service roads, with limited access to main roads, put in > place when there's room before development occurs, help to reduce many > traffic problems. > As an example, Pleasant Valley was not on the city's land use > plan.....but when developer Jason Phillips came to the city to develop up > the valley, the city gave Phillips the approval to proceed. Before checking > into any details and checking the feasibility of such a project, the city > was opening up the bidding process to provide sewer and water to the > development site. > The lines were eventually laid to Winona Golf and Dining at a cost to > taxpayers of $564,000. In addition, WGD was paid $125,000 for delay caused > in providing the hook up and also the $10,000 hook up fee was waived. A > total cost to taxpayers of $699,000 - for 1 customer, yes ONE. This now > brings the project to 55% over the budgeted amount of $450,000. The intent, > as stated by the city manager, was to continue the lines on to the Phillips > development site. Currently, there is much uncertainty that the Phillips > development will ever come to reality. If it does happen, the traffic > problems at Hwy 61 will be increasingly worse. Again, this can be > attributed to poor planning which turned into very irresponsible use of tax > dollars. > How many of us that work in the private sector could actually hold on to > our jobs and businesses with this kind of money management? How many of us > could exist with this kind of money management in our personal lives? It > starts with planning and sticking to the plan. I'm not saying minor shifts > from the main plan will not, or cannot happen, but such a major change in > plans is just asking for the trouble we are seeing. > Cost overruns and mistakes happen to all of us, but we learn from it and > use what's learned so it doesn't happen the next time. City projects end up > over budget repeatedly. Some city employees have been quoted as saying that > "this happens", and "building materials increase", and "this is normal", > "costs always go up from the time the project is quoted to the time it's > done". If it's happening repeatedly, it doesn't take a lot to figure out a > cost increase needs to be factored in from the beginning. > I will say some city council members are not "yes men" and do a good > job. Deb Salyards and Gerry Krage are looking in the right direction and > act with the taxpayer and future of the city in mind. (Salyards and Krage > voted against extending sewer and water to WGD at such an outrageous cost > for just one customer). I also believe these two form their own opinion and > don't take direction from up the line. The others have not convinced me of > that. I do know that it is not an easy job and criticism will be heard no > matter what action is taken. I just think many do not care to put the time > into finding out the facts for themselves. > Additionally, the city has been encouraged by other government agencies > to work with Winona County and neighboring Townships for a common land use > plan so all are aiming at the same goal for sensible, planned growth. It's > tough to be on a team when one player makes and changes the rules as the > game progresses and then blames the other players for a bungled up > performance. > To quote a segment of a recent letter from the DNR to the city, in > reference to the proposed Phillips development; > "As stated previously we believe that Winona County, Wilson Township > and the DNR have an obligation to consider a more comprehensive look at > development in the sensitive trout stream valleys and bluffs surrounding > Winona. We again emphasize our recommendation that resource based planning > be used to identify the best locations for development, rather than > selecting a site and then mitigating the impacts of development. We would > encourage the city to join the County and Wilson Township to conduct > resource based planning to meet the growth needs of Winona without > sacrificing the natural resource value and beautiful infrastructure of the > valleys and bluffs." > The industrial park is another "change of heart" by the city. The > park's creation was paid for by a voter approved sales tax increase. The > public was told it was for adding industrial zoned land for industry, not > big box retailers. When Wal-Mart proposed coming to town, the city rezoned > the area and let them in. Again, a change in the written comprehensive > plans of the city. Now we hear them say how we need industrial land. We > also see many businesses go out of business since Wal-Mart opened it's > doors. Recently there was an article in a local paper about how two Winona > malls are now 1/3 vacant, and also both behind on paying property taxes. > I'm sure Wal-Mart has some positive impact, but it appears it has more > visible, negative impact. This is another instance where hasty change of > plans have lead to trouble down the road. This change of plan has also > definitely attributed to the traffic problems in the Mankato Avenue / Hwy 61 > area. > > Sorry for the long post :-)) > > Daren Engler > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Winona Online Democracy" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 6:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Winona] throw them out of office? > > > [Winona Online Democracy] > > I do have solutions to the problems mentioned, otherwise I would not > have objected in the first place. However, since you are more > interested in applying language that intentionally confuses > disagreement with anger I am not going to waste my time rebuking your > straw man arguments or conversing with one uninterested in a different > opinion. > > The point about graduate retention was intended to highlight something > disturbing about Winona's demography rather than to employ every > graduate. I suggest you inspect many demographic statistics for Winona > and observe the burgeoning hole in Winona's population before you > dismiss my comments as motivated by anger. > > Further, the Winona unemployment rate was 3.6% or 25% better than the > current federal rate. > > One final question for C.E., why when I was in high school and college > did an overwhelming portion of the people that I knew have leaving > Winona as a top priority? Not heeding the concerns of the next > generation is also the same kind of short sighted thinking that > strangles Winona. It is the exact reason why Winona is thought of as a > "small town" when it is anything but, rather than a "small city." > > P.S. The name has two ns not one. > > > On Apr 21, 2006, at 13:20, c.e.w. wrote: > > > [Winona Online Democracy] > > > > Mr. Dittman, > > I am not going to get into a rant with you, obviously you are very angry > > with the city government. I stand by my statement and believe the city has > > came a long way in the past 10 years and I am proud of Winona. > > Regarding the traffic problem, I agree with you. Do you have a solution to > > the problem? > > Regarding jobs for degree holders? Unemployment is at 4.8%(theoretically > > zero) this is a town of 27000 people, and two colleges that produce degree > > holders about every four or five months..it is inherent that there will be > > a lack of "degree holder jobs", so degree holders cant all work in Winona, > > some may have to commute, some may have to leave, there is a certain > > degree of financial sacrifice you have to make to live in a smaller town. > > Regarding the riverfront and marina ? it is exactly that type of thinking > > that stagnated Winona during the 70's and 80's...I implore you to take a > > day drive up river and see what I am talking about. To imply that one > > good wedding would impact the local economy the same is preposterous. And > > again, I stand behind my belief that we should be putting a future > > development plan together regarding riverfront development. > > > > Regards, > > > > C.E. Woodford > > > ******************************************** > David Dittmann > _______________________________________________ > This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy > All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. > No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. > To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit > http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona > Any problems or suggestions can be directed to > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page > at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy > All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. > No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. > To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit > http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona > Any problems or suggestions can be directed to > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page > at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org > _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
