###Start dream One solution would be for 802.11 to enable a "Priority Infrastructure" flag that would be advertised as part of the 802.11 control frames (each entity would have to apply for a PI identifier: large corporations, Universities, ...). Individual Access-Points (like MiFi or home-AP) would have the option to acknowledge it or not. This flag would force non-priority infrastructure devices to pick another channel when a PI frame is encountered, but it would be optional and enabled by default on most devices. So, if you live in a house surrounded by too many "Priority Infrastructure", you can elect to not acknowledge the flag and live freely in Part15. The PI would not be designed as an ultimate control mechanism, but as a "polite spectrum behavior". This would be specifically designed for personal hotspots. This could also solve some of the "frictions" that Wi-Fi managers encounter on campus with devices that act as AP and are part of some equipment. Sscientific equipment, printers, or stubborn professor that have their own APs would be great candidate for this!
802.11r and k help the management of clients, but I don't remember those helping the management of interferences between infrastructures. Could this be added to 802.11f? If not, let's name it 802.11pi ;-) ###end dream Philippe Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us> On Jan 16, 2014, at 9:42 AM, Lee H Badman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I did reach out to Novatel- got no response. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of John Kaftan Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 9:25 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi This has been a great topic even if it we haven't resolved anything. I still think a signed petition, like we did for Apple, might get someone's attention and get them to change their ways. What kills me is that this channel 2 thing is not good for them either. Our signals on 1 and 6 are interfering with them as well. I took a class with Dave Molta at SU a few years back and as part of that class we all had to do a project. One group studied the effect of multiple APs sharing a channel vs two APs on adjacent channels. They found that there wasn't a measurable difference in performance between multiple clients on one AP compared to those same clients across separate APs on the same channel. Basically the clients follow the protocol and continue to do collision avoidance and stay out of each others way. However, stick that second AP on an interfering channel and all clients suffered dramatically because at that point they are just noise to each other. I explained it to the end user with the My-fi like this: If your My-Fi was on the same channel as one of our APs, i.e. 1,6,11 it would be like 4 people at a cocktail party hanging out and talking. They would use social queues to figure out when to talk so that we were not talking over each other. However, having the Mi-Fi on channel 2 would be like two of the people singing John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt at the top of their lungs 2 feet away while the other 2 continued to try and have a conversation. They could still do it but it would far less then optimal. He seemed to be on-board with me changing his settings when I explained it that way. At first he didn't want me messing with his My-Fi. So I agree that education is our #1 tool for now. BTW - Dave's class is excellent. Easily in my top 2 of classes I took while at SU. John On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Lee H Badman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Is a frustrating topic for sure. Even if you have a good wireless guest network, many vendors/visitors and even some faculty/staff/students just prefer to pull their own devices out and use “their own WLAN” anywhere and everywhere- it’s just part of their lifestyle. And yes, frustratingly our friends at Verizon and AT&T who make these units increasingly cheaper could give a rip about interference or policy of the places the gadgets get used. My own rant:http://wirednot.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/mi-fi-not-kind-to-wi-fi/ Prevention is great if you can effectively spread the word, but the need to have a mitigation strategy is inevitable- as is the occasional scenario where a class or meeting (or stadium event) has its campus wireless crippled by people “bringin’ their own Wi-Fi”. Sadly. Our lot in life is to bear the criticism that the WLAN sucks when we’re simply a victim of physics, until we can deal with getting the devices eliminated. The move to 5 GHz by more devices helps, but doesn’t eliminate the problem as some Mi-Fis are showing up in 5 GHz as well. To me, this is just one of the negative (to us in the Enterprise WLAN business) effects of the general consumerization of IT, and of WLAN specifically. There is no fix, there is no answer, so you need a strategy that combines: • Education- frequent and non-threatening messages of why these devices are problematic • Get partners- IT staff/Deans, etc beyond the WLAN admins have to buy in and help with the message • Enforcement- when you can without obsessing about it • Tolerance- some you just have to let slide, either politically or because it’s just not worth the battle And you have to be able to apply these in varying weights depending on the situation. Nothing with wireless is simple any more. One man’s O-pinion. Regards- Lee Badman From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Anthony, Mark G Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:00 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi We too have seen this issue in our conference center and other functions that go on around campus. As for policing them, we have in the past tried to shut them down and had good luck in doing so. Once everyone in the room turned off their Myfi’s they started working again on the campus wireless network. The down fall is that once you cleared the room and all is good a new group of people lets out and more Myfi’s show up. It’s fighting a losing battle is you ask me. Best we can do is get the person or person’s running the event and educate them about the possible situations before the event takes place. With that said, I’m also curious how others handle this issue during their large venues. ‘ Thanks, Mark G. Anthony Network Administrator Information Technology Services The Florida State University Email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Kaftan Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2014 10:34 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi I got my hands on someone's Verizon Myfi today and it was set to Auto choose what channel to broadcast its SSID on. The crazy thing chose channel 2! It was putting out a pretty strong signal too. I was seeing a -50 dB from 10 feet away. To anyone else connected to channel 1 or 6 a signal on channel 2 is going to be noise, i.e. interference. When doing scans I have seen this before. I have seen these things on every channel but 1,6,11 now that I think about it. I logged into its web interface and was able to force it to use channel 1. There is also an easy to use interface right on the device where I could chose the channel. I'm just alarmed that these things choose non-standandard channels. If 3-4 or more of these things show up in room hosting a conference we may have a real problem. Its hard enough to put 120 laptops in a room and get them all on and happy let alone having these things out there. I'm curious, does anybody police these devices at high density events or make an announcement requesting folks turn them off? I can't imagine these Myfis perform well in high density situations due to their competing for bandwidth on both 2.4 and cellular bands. Thanks -- John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
