Thanks John. FWIW, your characterization matches my experience in re the
opinions of people in a position to know. But every time I've been able to
ask the basis for that opinion the evidence is either anecdotal or it's based
on a survey of their peers. This reeks of groupthink.
I have my own anecdotal evidence, no more reliable than others of course, that
suggest connectivity isn't high on the priority list of prospective students.
When presented with the opportunity, I've asked some of our Lion Ambassadors,
who give campus tours to prospective students, what kind of questions they get
about wireless and networking. All four that I've asked said they don't get
general questions about availability or performance. They reported being
asked about how to access the network during the tour, but that question was
more likely to come from a parent than an applicant.
I think this is a very important question, but I don't have the resources to
pursue the answer myself. I eagerly await credible evidence one way or the
other.
Chuck
On May 13, 2015 9:06 PM, Jon Young <[email protected]> wrote:
Chuck,
That's a very fair question and I don't believe there is solid data to support
(or oppose) my contention. I can only support my claim by consistent
anecdotal opinions of those in the institutional position to know - our
stakeholder interviews with personnel in Admissions, Res Life, Student Affairs
strongly favor this opinion at most residential institutions. Interestingly,
in my experience this is less so for those institutions that have a larger
demographic from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. I'll leave the
guessing as to why that is so to another forum.
As you are likely aware, the ACUTA survey supports my contention but I am
unaware of any solid data surveying student recruitment in this area so it is
accurate to say that my opinion is based strictly on anecdotal (but
consistent) evidence from key stakeholders at a broad swath of institutions.
Even the ACUTA survey is based on the opinions of the those institutional
personnel, not direct student surveys.
That said, for internal political purposes, those internal stakeholder
opinions tend to be crucial in gaining the backing needed for effective
wireless initiatives. As we all also know, higher-ed has a strong tendency to
base decisions on what peers and aspirational peers are doing and the ACUTA
survey can be an excellent tool for this.
Thanks,
Jon
Vantage Technology Consulting Group
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Chuck Enfield <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
John, I’ve often heard it said that wireless is important to recruiting
and retention, but I’ve yet to find any solid foundation for the claim.
This may be because those search terms in Google return so much unrelated
information that the good data is hard to find, or it could be that the
claim is tenuous. Can you point us to any sources to substantiate it?
I’m skeptical, but open to evidence. It would definitely change the way I
think about our wireless services in relation to business needs.
Thanks,
Chuck Enfield
Manager, Wireless Systems & Engineering
Telecommunications & Networking Services
The Pennsylvania State University
110H, USB2, UP, PA 16802
ph: 814.863.8715 <tel:814.863.8715>
fx: 814.865.3988 <tel:814.865.3988>
*From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Jon Young
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2015 4:43 PM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] AW: [WIRELESS-LAN] To provide (wireless)
service, or not to provide (wireless) service...
We consult with many higher-ed institutions and the question your
President has posed about buying bulk data is a real one that many
institutions have looked into. We are frequently asked this question
(same question for cellular when it is time to replace the phone system)
when we assist schools with the network and WiFi strategy so I can tell
you that if you define the "some schools are investigating" this by asking
their independent consultants, that is true. If you are asking if it is
remotely viable and if anyone is seriously pursuing it beyond asking the
question, the answer as you expect is a resounding "no" for all the
reasons others have articulated on this thread.
That said, a couple of things to note:
Many schools have chosen to successfully outsource their resnet including
wireless (see the recent resnet report from ACUTA). That is sometimes by
letting the local cable company come in and offer service in the residence
halls and sometimes by outsourcing resnet to a company like Apogee. There
are pros and cons to insourcing vs outsourcing resnet but I think it is
reasonable to consider if that is the right choice for your institution.
Of I think larger importance to your President - the quality of wireless
internet is a key component of student recruitment and retention at many
institutions. At the request of one Ivy, I even wrote an internal white
paper justifying ubiquitous WiFi across campus based primarily on student
recruitment and retention. I suggest speaking with your admissions group
and getting their thoughts on the importance of high-quality wireless
internet (define that how you like) in the res halls and the rest of campus.
Good luck,
Jon Young
Vantage Technology Consulting Group.
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Brian Helman <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I have a little more information to provide now. I absolutely appreciate
that it will be extremely tempting to respond with biased opinions. I
don’t think there is anything that can be said that I haven’t already
expressed to my team. However, that will not help me write up my
recommendation. So that being said, feel free to chime in with tangible
reasons to do this or not…
Apparently, our president heard that some schools are investigating
purchasing bulk data contracts with mobile (“cellular”) carriers for
data. The idea is, we would stop providing 802.11g/n/ac wireless in the
residence halls and instead provide students with the abilities to
register their devices with the mobile carrier to use 4G/LTE data. The
University will pay for this.
Pros:
No wireless (802.11) to purchase, support
Reduced POE requirements on switches
No wireless driver/configuration mismatches problems to support
Cons:
Is mobile wireless signal available everywhere inside the buildings?
Costs to improve signal.
What speeds are available (what range of speeds)? Is it by user or
aggregate?
How is congestion handled?
What devices – mobile phones only? Hotspots to provide access to
non-cellular devices (e.g wifi-only tablets; laptops)
More Ethernet ports needed for devices that previously depended on wireless
What provider(s)?
Support shifted from “device to institutional wifi” to “device to myfi” or
“devide to 3^rd party”
Cost per user, per GB?
What else?
If you know of any institutions who have attempted this (I have heard MIT
is looking at it, but we aren’t MIT), please let me know.
By the way, the background here is .. we installed our 802.11n network ~5
years ago and haven’t had any commitment to fund it since. So now we are
trying to deal with capacity (BYOD) issues that didn’t exist 5 years ago
while upgrading to 11ac. Of course, it’s not a 1:1 swap of equipment
since we’d be migrating from 2.4GHz to 2.4+5GHz. That puts the costs for
forklift upgrades pretty high (did I mention I’ve been unsuccessfully
asking for funding for 3 years?).
I believe this can all best be summarized with a simple .. Oy.
-Brian
*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Jerkan,
Kristijan
*Sent:* Sunday, May 03, 2015 12:34 PM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] AW: [WIRELESS-LAN] To provide (wireless)
service, or not to provide (wireless) service...
As a public institution in the EDU sector we always had a byod policy in
our dorm network, specifically including „anything You want to connect to
the port in Your room“.
Parameters:
-5k+ dorm rooms (1.8k the largest segment, 20 the smallest)
-120km radius
-at least one (mostly two) RJ45 port per room (cat5-7 to the switch, fiber
afterwards)
-10/100MBit ports (deliberatly did not go for 1GBit at the edge)
-no additional accounting, just dhcp with opt82
-public ips behind reflexive acl (no shaping, etc.)
-uplink via the federal research network
-service neutral (whoever wants to can use a DSL provider also/instead and
may use the inhouse cable from their basement to their room for it)
-one service number (fixed number, forwarded to five cellphones – whoever
picks up first wins)
-managed by ~10 students (pro bono, but with a couple of incentives)
That beeing said, here are a few points why this works for us and is not
generally applicable:
-people have to work together to archive common goals (state, local,
university and dorm administration – technical and administrative staff)
-it does not take much to put a service neutral CAT cable into every room
while they are beeing built/renovated instead of a cheaper telephone
cable, but it does take a joint effort and common goals
-to every dorm room there is a rent/contract, so we know who is „behind“
it and can make one specific person liable (opt82)
-there are only single-bed rooms (this is a cultural thing and different
than in the US, I guess noone around here would even rent a shared room)
-almost no dorms are adjacent to the classrooms/labs (seamless wireless
coverage/services wouldn’t be possible anyway)
-in order to find enough students (5 for the core team) who will do the
occasionally needed actual work without payment, a balance between demands
and incentives is important
Effect:
-very low capex and extremly low opex for the dorm network [numbers only
off list]
-very limited support calls (maybe 2/week; maybe 10-20 during the
move-in-phase, mostly students from the states asking about the
non-existant login/pw)
-no need to worry about deprication charges or every new feature
(regarding wireless: ABG to N to AC; MIMO, fequency analysis chipsets;
2.4ghz to 5ghz, wave2)
-the least administrative overhead possible
-none of the students in our networking team had problems finding jobs
after they left (no trouble finding volunteers, very long participation
period)
-scalabe system; got us from ~1.2k rooms (back in ’99) within a 1km radius
to 5k+ (today) in a 120km radius
-effective support answers („Yes, You can also attach every AP You want to
You port… No, don’t worry, if You are able to understand Your class
reading, You will also understand vendor X’s manual…)
-no secondary discussions (health, etc.)
-plug&play experience for students
-ability to consolidate our attention to more interesting projects; we
still provide wireless (eduroam), but only in common areas away from the
rooms (ALU/Aruba 6000, now 7210, anything between 124s and 270s except the
cloud based APs)
-over the years we had some (small and larger) dorms outsourced to
different (small and large) companies who provided full wireless-only
coverage, standard management as well as forbidden private wireless, but
as our own model proved technically resiliant and cost-effective time and
again, our external partners solutions didn‘t
Basically our setup could be exactly what Your administrative staff/board
is aiming for.
My personal message to them would be to first and foremost take an honest
look at how and why things are the way they are.
If they just argue out of a mix of intuition and auserity, their good
intentions will cause a fail (probably utterly and completely, like many
others before).
It is possible to run a cost effective plug&play network, with a high
satisfaction rate amoung students (EDU did that long before the BYOD
marketing hype). But that requires a high level of cooperation (belivers,
ideally who themselves lived in dorms and remember how student life can
be), common goals, success in overcoming obstacles and also constant
vigilance and re-evaluation.
From an administrative and oversight point of view this is a lot more and
complex work than finding, distributing and approving funds. For various
reasons it is also not always something that can be implemented everywhere
or sustained for a meaningful period of time. Therefore it is often better
to honestly deal with the geographic/personal/political reality and to
solve the technical problem with money.
Even if Your board would want to, a change towards a system like ours
takes time. Your institution should definetly not run on an obsolete
wireless infrastructure during that periode (and wear out its staff and
cause stir among students in the process).
Hope this helps to balance the biased view. ;-)
Regards,
Kris
*Von:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:[email protected]] *Im Auftrag von *Brian Helman
*Gesendet:* Freitag, 1. Mai 2015 17:23
*An:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Betreff:* [WIRELESS-LAN] To provide (wireless) service, or not to provide
(wireless) service...
A few weeks ago we made a pitch for funding to upgrade our res halls to
802.11ac. This request for funding has had an unforeseen effect. I’m not
being asked to investigate NOT providing wireless networking in our res
halls. Here are the options, as it has been described to me:
-No institutional wireless. Let the students bring in their own AP’s
-Some kind of managed service (wireless as a service) with 802.11
-Some kind of institutionally owned/leased mobile wireless (e.g we provide
our own 4G)
-Hybrid
-Continue with 802.11n 2.4GHz and fill in holes as they pop up
I’m not going to put my thoughts up here just yet. These are the
options/thoughts as presented by the levels above me.
Let the discussion begin….
____________________________________
*Brian Helman, M.Ed *|* Director, ITS/Networking Services |
*(:*978.542.7272 <tel:978.542.7272>*
*Salem State University, 352 Lafayette St., Salem Massachusetts 01970*
*GPS: 42.502129, -70.894779*
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