I think there's a short term risk vs long term reward. In the short term, there's little benefit to W2 and more risk of code stability, lack of features, etc.
In the long term, MU will bring some benefit. How much will depend on a lot of factors. W1 vs W2 for me is really about these risks vs equipment lifecycle. How much sooner are you replacing equipment, end of support dates, etc. Thanks Jake Snyder Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2016, at 11:08 AM, GT Hill <g...@gthill.com> wrote: > > Hello all… > > Just a few thoughts on this topic. > Wave 2 isn’t any faster than wave 1 so it doesn’t need two Eth ports etc. > Now, by true specification, yes it CAN be faster but that’s only because of > 160 MHz channelization. > MU-MIMO just takes the same number of streams and distributes them to > multiple clients. For example, 3 MU streams has no greater Eth load than a > 3x3:3 client on a 3x3:3 AP. > However, new 11ac APs are 4x4:4. So technically they can be faster. But, the > only way that will have any effect whatsoever is if you have a 4 spatial > stream client device. And while those will come out (if not already) most > devices on campus are mobile, so 2 spatial stream max. MU-MIMO would then be > able to send two, two stream transmissions. However, keep in mind that each > MU-MIMO stream will be lowering its data rate vs. a single device. (longer > discussion) > One single 1 Gbps port will take you through to 11ax. > Wi-Fi is half duplex and Eth is full. > I used to work for a Wi-Fi manufacturer and in any test we could throw at it, > we couldn’t get 1 Gbps ethernet to be our bottleneck except is completely > unrealistic environments (single direction traffic only, 160 MHz > channelization, 4x4:4 client etc) > Wave 1 to Wave 2 is a VERY small upgrade in the grand scheme of things. 11g > to 11n was revolutionary. > MU-MIMO hasn’t been proven except in a lab. Yes, in perfect scenarios it can > provide some improvement. But there is a lot of cost (overhead) in making > MU-MIMO work. Dollar for dollar, I would only consider MU-MIMO APs in my most > highly dense areas. And even for that I may not be convinced… > Look at individual features on wave 2 APs. > There ARE sacrifices in new technology for sake of getting it to market. > Often times you will see better performance from an older generation (I use > generation loosely with 11ac W1 to W2) APs. > Look to make sure that all performance features (ATF, band steering etc) are > there are newer APs. Oddly enough, some features are dropped b/c programming > those into a new chipset takes TIME. > Random thoughts > I am not saying don’t buy W2 APs. I’m saying that you shouldn’t expect the > features in W2 to have that much of an improvement > New chipsets are almost always better at PHY level stuff vs. older chips EVEN > with the same specs (3x3:3, 4x4:4 etc). Chip manufacturers just get better at > what they do. > Don’t forget about 11ax. Its here in two years and it should have significant > improvement for high-density (not overall, single device throughput) > applications. Client devices will of course take some time but as someone > mentioned, higher-ed has the fastest client adoption turnover in any > vertical. > Sorry that was such a long response. > > GT Hill > > From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv > <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Philippe Hanset > <phan...@anyroam.net> > Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv > <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> > Date: Friday, August 5, 2016 at 11:34 AM > To: <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> > Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outsourced ResNet > > Brian, > > Food for thoughts... > > How is the over-subscription to the commodity Internet keeping up with Wi-Fi > these days? > > Most services are in the cloud and it seems that Internet Commodity could be > the limiting factor rather than wave1 or wave2 or even staying with 802.11n. > > Is it worth worrying about 802.11ac wave 1 or wave 2 when your Wi-Fi is so > much more capable than your campus uplink? > (or is it?) > > When we talked about 802.11g VS 802.11n there were huge differences between > the two. > Is it still the case between wave 1 and wave 2? > > Software support lifecycle seems to be the main determining factor in Wi-Fi > infrastructure upgrades. > So, rather than Wave1 VS Wave2, we should maybe consider vendors with longer > software lifecycle support. > > Also, many of us upgraded from 802.11n to 802.11ac building-wide and even > campus-wide because n and ac didn’t play well together. > How do Wave1 and Wave 2 play together? > > Philippe > > Philippe Hanset > www.eduroam.us > www.anyroam.net > > > > >> On Aug 5, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Jeffrey D. Sessler <j...@scrippscollege.edu> >> wrote: >> >> There are few problems I see with this line of thinking. >> >> a) This is the same argument people made when 802.11n arrived i.e. >> Stick with 802.11g as it’s less expensive, proven, and there are hardly any >> 11n clients. For those of us who jumped on the cutting edge, we road an >> explosive wave of 11n clients and all the benefits of being prepared for it. >> Others that stuck to 11g no doubt regretted their decision. >> b) If there is a cost difference between Wave 1 and 2 it’s because the >> manufacture knows Wave 1 is dead, and they are more than happy to get that >> inventory cleared out. You’ve just purchased on the declining edge of that >> technology’s life-cycle. >> c) Life-cycle. If your AP life-cycle is say five years (or longer), a >> Wave 1 AP is already a couple of years into its eventual EOS/EOL with the >> vendor. This means you could get four years out and it’s no longer supported >> by current controller code. By purchasing at the leading-edge, you’re many >> more years from having to deal with that scenario. >> >> Jeff >> >> >> From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" >> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of James Andrewartha >> <jandrewar...@ccgs.wa.edu.au> >> >> Right now I would still buy mid-range Wave 1 APs, because the pricing is >> significantly cheaper, and there’s hardly any MU-MIMO clients yet, Apple >> devices in particular. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. > >> On Aug 5, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Jeffrey D. Sessler <j...@scrippscollege.edu> >> wrote: >> >> There are few problems I see with this line of thinking. >> >> a) This is the same argument people made when 802.11n arrived i.e. >> Stick with 802.11g as it’s less expensive, proven, and there are hardly any >> 11n clients. For those of us who jumped on the cutting edge, we road an >> explosive wave of 11n clients and all the benefits of being prepared for it. >> Others that stuck to 11g no doubt regretted their decision. >> b) If there is a cost difference between Wave 1 and 2 it’s because the >> manufacture knows Wave 1 is dead, and they are more than happy to get that >> inventory cleared out. You’ve just purchased on the declining edge of that >> technology’s life-cycle. >> c) Life-cycle. If your AP life-cycle is say five years (or longer), a >> Wave 1 AP is already a couple of years into its eventual EOS/EOL with the >> vendor. This means you could get four years out and it’s no longer supported >> by current controller code. By purchasing at the leading-edge, you’re many >> more years from having to deal with that scenario. >> >> Jeff >> >> >> From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" >> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of James Andrewartha >> <jandrewar...@ccgs.wa.edu.au> >> >> Right now I would still buy mid-range Wave 1 APs, because the pricing is >> significantly cheaper, and there’s hardly any MU-MIMO clients yet, Apple >> devices in particular. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. > > ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE > Constituent Group discussion list can be found at > http://www.educause.edu/groups/. > ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE > Constituent Group discussion list can be found at > http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
