I'm inclined to agree with you, Hunter - so you're probably wrong. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> On Behalf Of Hunter Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 2:18 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ex: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] neighbors 'jamming' 2.4GHz
spectrum
Chuck, that all makes sense, but I don't think the earlier quote would
bother the FCC. I'm talking about this one that David provided:
"Personal wireless access points, network switches, and routers are
not permitted on campus as they can interfere with the functioning of
the campus network."
This seems pretty enforceable, and it clearly doesn't have to do with
unlicensed spectrum, because network switches and wired routers are
prohibited by this quote, even though they don't have anything to do
with Wi-Fi.
It seems Draconian to me, but it also seems safe to enforce, for
Universities that have passed such a policy. But as some have
mentioned, this is the WIRELESS-LAN list, rather than the LAWYER list,
so of course I'm just speculating.
--
Hunter Fuller
Router Jockey
VBH Annex B-5
+1 256 824 5331
Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Network Engineering
On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 12:53 PM Enfield, Chuck <cae...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
> The difference between Mi-Fi and sandwiches is that there's no Federal
> Sandwich Commission claiming exclusive authority to regulate sandwiches. Our
> institutions are free to pass policies consistent with the law, but it's
> clear from this thread that we don’t know precisely what the law allows in
> this case.
>
>
>
> Here's the relevant excerpt from Penn State’s policy manual:
>
>
>
> The University also reserves the right to control and/or manage use of the
> frequency spectrum within the boundaries of all University locations.
> Individuals of the University are required to report transmitting devices and
> their characteristics to University officials, if so requested. The
> University reserves the right to require those units or individuals found to
> have such devices that interfere or are suspected to interfere with operation
> of centrally managed University systems, to discontinue use of such devices,
> and, if necessary, to remove them from University property.
>
>
>
> I have concerns about this policy that would keep me from trying to enforce
> it:
>
>
>
> The University must manage the spectrum assigned to it, but I'm pretty sure
> the FCC controls the spectrum and that the unlicensed spectrum isn’t ours to
> manage.
> Who are these university officials that can request reporting? I have no
> reason to think I or my staff are among them, but perhaps we are.
> I suspect the University can ban categories of devices from campus as it sees
> fit, including RF transmitters. If instead of making this about spectrum we
> just banned RF transmitters of any kind, or even specific kinds, we could
> probably get away with it. But we’re on much shakier ground if we allow such
> devices and choose to selectively prohibit them based on what we deem to be
> adverse effects on the spectrum associated with their legal use. That’s a
> backhanded way of controlling the unlicensed spectrum and I don’t think the
> FCC will like it.
>
>
>
> Nevertheless, if concern #2 was addressed I’d be willing to attempt
> enforcement. Our Office of General Counsel is responsible for making sure
> our policies are legal – not me.
>
>
>
> Chuck Enfield
>
> Manager, Wireless & Cellular
>
> Penn State IT
>
> 119L USB2, UP, PA 16802
>
> Office: 814.863.8715
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv
> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> On Behalf Of Hunter Fuller
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 12:22 PM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ex: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] neighbors 'jamming' 2.4GHz
> spectrum
>
>
>
> I'm not sure everyone is really speaking the same language here.
>
>
>
> If my University passed a policy that said students can't have sandwiches on
> campus, that would be enforceable and they could even be subject to
> disciplinary committee if they brought a sandwich to campus.
>
>
>
> If you replace a sandwich with a Mi-Fi device, I'm not sure how that's any
> different.
>
>
>
> That being said, we do not have such a policy - just one forbidding them from
> connecting their routers and such to our network. That's fine for us, and we
> just try to educate people - 90% of the time it works every time.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Hunter Fuller
>
> Router Jockey
>
> VBH Annex B-5
>
> +1 256 824 5331
>
>
>
> Office of Information Technology
>
> The University of Alabama in Huntsville
>
> Network Engineering
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:52 AM Jake Snyder <jsnyde...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Unfortunately, aside from talking to the person there isn’t much you can
> > do. The person in question isn’t “jamming,” they are using spectrum and
> > completely entitled to do so.
>
> >
>
> > Simplistically, you can prevent devices the university owns from connecting
> > to it. Beyond that, you venture into the grey area.
>
> >
>
> > Best course is to go talk to the person, educate them, and hope they are
> > reasonable. realistically, you cause as much impact to them as they do to
> > you.
>
> >
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> >
>
> > On Jan 29, 2020, at 8:22 AM, Dom Colangelo
> > <dcolang...@omadatechnologies.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I came across this 2015 article on the Marriot penalty and subsequent FCC
> > public notice – there’s a lot of grey area as it relates with higher
> > education, and it seems many are forming their own interpretations.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > -------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > <image002.jpg>
>
> > Dom Colangelo
>
> >
>
> > Systems Engineer
>
> >
>
> > Omada Technologies
>
> >
>
> > Cell: (617)-446-3945
>
> >
>
> > dcolang...@omadatechnologies.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv
>
> > <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> On Behalf Of Michael Holden
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 10:07 AM
>
> > To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>
> > Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ex: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] neighbors 'jamming'
>
> > 2.4GHz spectrum
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Aruba gives the following warning when doing containment / deauth
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The Federal Communications Commission ("FCC") and some third parties have
> > alleged that, under certain circumstances, use of containment functionality
> > violates 47 U.S.C. Section 333 and/or other FCC rules, regulations or
> > policies. Before using any containment functionality, you should determine
> > whether your intended use is allowed under the applicable rules,
> > regulations and policies. Aruba shall not be liable for any claims,
> > sanctions, or other direct, indirect, special, consequential or incidental
> > damages related to your use of containment functionality.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv
>
> > <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> On Behalf Of Julian Y Koh
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 9:50 AM
>
> > To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>
> > Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Ex: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] neighbors 'jamming'
>
> > 2.4GHz spectrum
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Jan 29, 2020, at 08:38, Coehoorn, Joel <jcoeho...@york.edu> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I don't know about that. The enforcement example that stands out to me is
> > Marriott was not allowed to use the fine print when you get a room to
> > prohibit hot spots, interfering or not, and they paid a hefty fine because
> > of it.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The details are a little hazy with the passage of time, but IIRC the
> > Marriott case was special because they were using the active rogue
> > disassociation features of their wireless network to intentionally knock
> > people off of any SSIDs other than the ones that they were operating. So
> > that goes beyond simply radiating on a channel.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Corrections/clarifications welcome as always! :)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> >
>
> > Julian Y. Koh
>
> >
>
> > Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
>
> >
>
> > Northwestern Information Technology
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 2020 Ridge Avenue #331
>
> >
>
> > Evanston, IL 60208
>
> >
>
> > +1-847-467-5780
>
> >
>
> > Northwestern IT Web Site:
>
> > <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>
> > it.northwestern.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ccae104%40PSU.EDU%7Ceb7eb5214
>
> > ffa4421f4a208d7a4dfdd79%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C6
>
> > 37159153716989111&sdata=5q27mDKI11YrPjiAVx2XoSyDdb9pHRh5gt7PiAe69M
>
> > 4%3D&reserved=0>
>
> >
>
> > PGP Public Key:
>
> > <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbt.
>
> > ittns.northwestern.edu%2Fjulian%2Fpgppubkey.html&data=02%7C01%7Cca
>
> > e104%40PSU.EDU%7Ceb7eb5214ffa4421f4a208d7a4dfdd79%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9
>
> > c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637159153716989111&sdata=qmX4Du5BSNc0lGUh
>
> > m%2FtOYHrF5DXUaPyRn60cyJyEkWg%3D&reserved=0>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
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