You could try www.online.myworldvox.com they have a soft VoIP phone
called firefly.I found it works very well PC - PC And PC - out.
Dean
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:45:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [BAWUG] VoIP software
does anyone have any links to reliable VoIP software that one can
install on their laptop (H323 compatible). I am probably even willing to
pay for a copy if there is no free solution. I have tried a number of
free solutions (freebsd and windows) but they do not work reliably
without extensive configuration pains. Thanks in advance. We want to
combine this with our existing hardware VoIP devices to provide adhoc
phone contact to researchers and technicians in the field.
-todd
--__--__--
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 4:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: wireless digest, Vol 1 #505 - 11 msgs
Send wireless mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of wireless digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Wireless communication and data services - will
they saturate? (blitz)
2. Re: Wireless communication and data services - will they saturate?
(David Young)
3. RE: Wireless communication and data services - will they saturate?
(Casey Halverson)
4. VoIP software (Todd Hansen)
5. BARWN standard radio, but.... (Russell Nelson)
6. Integrated SQL Billing Software? (Wireless)
7. RE: BARWN standard radio, but.... (John Berry)
8. Re: BARWN standard radio, but.... (David Young)
9. Re: VoIP software (Stas Khirman)
10. VoIP software (Ken Berger)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:25:49 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: blitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [BAWUG] Wireless communication and data services - will
they saturate?
Quite realistic?
Its heading for a dead end. Sorry to say.
As in many things, its success will be its downfall. One can now scan
the
ISM spectrum and see a perceivable rise in the noise floor. Links that
once
worked will fall victim to ever increasing noise floors, and become less
and less reliable. Expansion of bands will be a must, but all the good
stuff will be polluted, leaving less and less frequencies to be
developed
at higher and higher frequencies, all with less range.
There are a few bright spots, mesh networking and software defined
radios
'might' add a bit of cushion, but not forever. Better modulation schemes
might help, but at the expense of antiquating the investment in the last
technology.
With the FCC's current rush to destroy the 2-80 mhz bands with broadband
over power lines, one can see no sane policies coming forth from them in
the near future. No, in fact, policy will be dictated by bribes, graft
and
corruption by the corporate thugs who will simply buy whatever influence
they desire.
The future does not look bright to me, and I speak from the standpoint
of
an RF engineer of some 30 years of experience.
This doesn't mean we should throw in the towel, and acquiesce to the
possibilities. New schemes are being hatched as I type. We should
endeavor
to hang onto the limited resources we have in the spectrum with the
tenaciousness of a pit bull. We don't know exactly what the future may
bring, but we certainly will need spectrum to experiment.
At 14:44 3/18/2004, you wrote:
>So where are wireless communications and data services headed? Will it
>become a 'neccessary' service, like the plain old phone line is now, or
>like electricity, or will it continue to always evolve into something
>'new' and 'hot'?
>To elaborate: plain old telephones and electricity are pretty much
>essential services. Everyone needs and has them. However, they are
>saturated technologies. There has been little effective improvement in
>their design that has impacted the common man in the recent past. Are
>wireless services also headed this way? If so, how soon can we observe
>such effects?
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Protect your PC from viruses. Get in the experts.
>http://www.msn.co.in/pcsafety/ Click here now!
>
>--
>general wireless list, a bawug thing <http://www.bawug.org/>
>[un]subscribe: http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:29:31 -0600
From: David Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [BAWUG] Wireless communication and data services - will
they saturate?
On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 04:25:49PM -0500, blitz wrote:
> Quite realistic?
> Its heading for a dead end. Sorry to say.
> As in many things, its success will be its downfall. One can now scan
> the
> ISM spectrum and see a perceivable rise in the noise floor. Links that
once
> worked will fall victim to ever increasing noise floors, and become
less
> and less reliable. Expansion of bands will be a must, but all the good
> stuff will be polluted, leaving less and less frequencies to be
developed
> at higher and higher frequencies, all with less range.
It's not quite as bad as that. I do think that things are going to get
worse before they get better, but slowly technology is coming to market
that will help to fit more users into the bands. For example, transmit
power control, such as 802.11 products by Atheros provide, helps reduce
the interference range. There is also the Javelin chip by Motia
(www.motia.com), which adaptively mixes four antennas' inputs to
essentially select a low-interference, high-gain "spatial channel" for
receiving. The receive parameters can be "reversed" to transmit back to
a station on the same spatial channel it was received on. This will
improve performance and coexistence of 802.11 stations.
BTW, I think that great strides can be made in the "bits versus
air-time" efficiency of existing 802.11 radios. Sometimes,
backwards-compatible software changes are all that is necessary. Just
for example, there are a lot of systems out there that use a very naive
link adaptation algorithm, with bad effects on both their performance
and their "co-existability." Just for example, it actually makes things
worse if two 802.11b stations that are receiving interference either
from each other or else from a microwave oven or a FHSS station, to both
change their data rate from 11 to 5.5 to 2 to 1Mbps! Nevertheless, that
is what many stations will do.
I think that there might be places where the FCC can intervene to
improve matters. I don't yet see how the market rewards LinkSys, D-Link,
and other makers of *home APs* (I think the enterprise is
different) for adding transmit power control to their products, and I
don't think that they see it, either. Maybe the FCC should intervene? I
do see how Javelin-like technology can improve their wireless products'
marketability---superior link adaptation, too. The FCC could actually
hinder improvements by mandating any particular technology for adaptive
antennas or link adaptation. I think that the FCC should compel radio
makers to provide more open access to documentation about the software
interfaces to their chips, since that will speed up wireless innovation.
Dave
--
David Young OJC Technologies
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933
--__--__--
Message: 3
Subject: RE: [BAWUG] Wireless communication and data services - will
they saturate?
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:38:34 -0800
From: "Casey Halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I'm sure wireless communication and data services will be just as hot as
the touch tone POTS line in your home is. And no, I don't consider my
POTS line "new" and "hot". Its probably the most utilitarian service I
subscribe to, next to the water, electricity, and garbage services.
Eventually, data services will become something like electricity. While
nothing interesting has happened to the consumer delivery of electricity
in the past 75 years, we will be continuously amazed over what new
products, devices, and applications which make use of electricity. =20
Those new applications will always be "new", "cool" and "hot".
I thought a mature data network was what everyone wanted? Someday I
hope a time will come where mailing lists like this do not exist. =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niranjay Ravindran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:44 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [BAWUG] Wireless communication and data services -=20 will
>they saturate? =20
>=20
> So where are wireless communications and data services=20
> headed? Will it=20
> become a 'neccessary' service, like the plain old phone line=20
> is now, or like=20
> electricity, or will it continue to always evolve into=20
> something 'new' and=20
> 'hot'?
> To elaborate: plain old telephones and electricity are pretty=20
> much essential=20
> services. Everyone needs and has them. However, they are saturated=20
> technologies. There has been little effective improvement in=20
> their design=20
> that has impacted the common man in the recent past. Are=20
> wireless services=20
> also headed this way? If so, how soon can we observe such effects?
>=20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC from viruses. Get in the experts.=20
> http://www.msn.co.in/pcsafety/ Click here now!
>=20
> --
> general wireless list, a bawug thing <http://www.bawug.org/>
> [un]subscribe: http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>=20
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:45:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [BAWUG] VoIP software
does anyone have any links to reliable VoIP software that one can
install on their laptop (H323 compatible). I am probably even willing to
pay for a copy if there is no free solution. I have tried a number of
free solutions (freebsd and windows) but they do not work reliably
without extensive configuration pains. Thanks in advance. We want to
combine this with our existing hardware VoIP devices to provide adhoc
phone contact to researchers and technicians in the field.
-todd
--__--__--
Message: 5
From: Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:47:07 -0500
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [BAWUG] BARWN standard radio, but....
I've seen the design for the BARWN standard node, but ... I have two
concerns about it. First is that you have two 2.4Ghz radios in the same
box[1]. Second is the cost[2]. I'm wondering if it might not be
substantially cheaper to use two Linksys WRT54G routers (cheaper) at
some distance from each other connected via Ethernet (less
interference). On the other hand, the BARWN node uses better radios
(Senao) than the Linksys.
[1] http://lists.bawug.org/pipermail/wireless/2004-January/014266.html
[2] http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#182
--
--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com | I'm giving a short
Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | talk at WTF, Isen's
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | stupid net conference:
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | FWD# 404529 via VOIP | http://stupidnet.com
--__--__--
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:32:53 -0700
From: Wireless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [BAWUG] Integrated SQL Billing Software?
Hello All,<br>
<br>
I am about 4 weeks from rolling out a WISP using Canopy; my
question is has anyone integrated any SQL Billing Software with the
Bandwidth Authentication Module? And if so, what has your
expierence (good/bad) been? <br> <br> Any suggestion or
comments appreciated.<br> <br> Sean<br>
--__--__--
Message: 7
From: "John Berry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Russell Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [BAWUG] BARWN standard radio, but....
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:42:06 -0800
I agree the pair of 2.4GHz radios in a box is a problem. NoCat reached
this conclusion after some experiments reported here and on their list,
and I've seen the same issue with sflan and also a report out of the UK.
I know of four possible solutions:
1) separate the radios by at least 10 feet
2) house the radios in separate shielded enclosures
3) use 2.4 and 5.8 GHz
4) use a board with grounding plane to attach emi shielding
I think the best solution depends on your situation. Much of San
Francisco has a high 2.4GHz noise floor. So, SFlan has done some
experiments with 5.8 atheros mini-pci cards. We got throughputs around
12Mbps from 802.11a, but much less range because of attenuation from
higher frequency (~7dB), lower power (~6dB), and greater losses from the
tiny cables (~2dB). SFlan has some gear if anyone wants to help test and
design the next generation node.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Russell Nelson
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [BAWUG] BARWN standard radio, but....
I've seen the design for the BARWN standard node, but ... I have two
concerns about it. First is that you have two 2.4Ghz radios in the same
box[1]. Second is the cost[2]. I'm wondering if it might not be
substantially cheaper to use two Linksys WRT54G routers (cheaper) at
some distance from each other connected via Ethernet (less
interference). On the other hand, the BARWN node uses better radios
(Senao) than the Linksys.
[1] http://lists.bawug.org/pipermail/wireless/2004-January/014266.html
[2] http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#182
--
--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com | I'm giving a short
Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | talk at WTF, Isen's
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | stupid net conference:
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | FWD# 404529 via VOIP | http://stupidnet.com
--
general wireless list, a bawug thing <http://www.bawug.org/>
[un]subscribe: http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
--__--__--
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:21:45 -0600
From: David Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: John Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [BAWUG] BARWN standard radio, but....
On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 06:42:06PM -0800, John Berry wrote:
> I agree the pair of 2.4GHz radios in a box is a problem. NoCat reached
> this conclusion after some experiments reported here and on their
> list, and I've seen the same issue with sflan and also a report out of
> the UK.
I am curious what the received signal strength is for the cross-talk. If
it is very low, perhaps you can raise the Tx defer threshold and the Rx
threshold to compensate?
By how much are the antennas separated? A local WISP tells me that they
can get 3-4Mb/s from colocated radios (versus 5Mb/s expected), provided
their omni & directional are separated by 20 feet. That is, the antenna
separation is the dominating factor.
Dave
--
David Young OJC Technologies
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933
--__--__--
Message: 9
Reply-To: "Stas Khirman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Stas Khirman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Todd Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [BAWUG] VoIP software
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:41:52 -0800
Did you try Skype (www.skype.com) ? It is not H.323 compatible, but
proprietery technology ( from KaZaa developers!) make a majic - clear
no-noise VoIP.
Stas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: [BAWUG] VoIP software
> does anyone have any links to reliable VoIP software that one can
install
> on their laptop (H323 compatible). I am probably even willing to pay
for a
> copy if there is no free solution. I have tried a number of free
solutions
> (freebsd and windows) but they do not work reliably without extensive
> configuration pains. Thanks in advance. We want to combine this with
our
> existing hardware VoIP devices to provide adhoc phone contact to
> researchers and technicians in the field. -todd
> --
> general wireless list, a bawug thing <http://www.bawug.org/>
> [un]subscribe: http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
--__--__--
Message: 10
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Ken Berger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "bawug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [BAWUG] VoIP software
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:54:19 -0800
Organization: LogX Technologies
Asterisk is a fairly robust, open-source PBX for Linux. It's H.323 and
SIP
compatible. In fact, VoicePulse uses * at their core.
http://asterisk.org/
-Ken
--__--__--
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End of wireless Digest
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