hehehehe - - I treat my wife like this from time to time and when I get through ranting she smiles really nicely and asks "do you fell better?" Well, do you feel better now JP? I suspect you ought to lay off the caffeine and try a stiff JD & 7up :-) at tense moments. (note: no caffeine in 7up or Jack Daniels)

I gotta say that the most I have ever learned has been at trade shows - - just sitting and talking with the other guys who started long before I did. I have also made some really fine friends that will be friends for life who are absolute bon-a-fide know it alls and will share!! Butch Evans, Matt Larsen, Scriv, Rick Harnish, Mike Delp, Stewart Pierce,............and the list could go on for a while. I can't complain about the costs associated with attending a trade show because I have certainly been the one to benefit from just being there.

I suspect the next show I attend - - there will be a major emphasis on VOIP on the side line!! We may even get kicked out of several different places while this discussion goes on - - from the bar to the game room to a living room or a hallway - - - - eh Scriv? :-)

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-303-4107 - Monroe, La
318-450-4101 - NOC

Jon Price wrote:

Is it _your_ voip service or something like Vonage riding over your network?
Certain ones, like Vonage ship the router (like a Linksys RT31P2) with an
overhead buffer/allocation preconfigured for around that same 128K to
optimize voice quality. There's also a "bandwidth saver" setting that could
be messing with them (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,10277184) which
I believe swaps the codec in use to something more or less bandwidth/QoS
intensive like G.711, G.726 or G.729.
Ya can't blame a voip provider for carving out a piece of the/your bandwidth
to keep their QoS at peak levels. As with most services, the more b'width,
the better the quality - so the sub may have it set for peak voice quality
and low b'width savings therefore each time their mail client pops or a get
request fires out for a web page while the line(s) are in use, that's that.
I suspect this will be the twist for working around portblocking
issues...simply tweak the QoS to preferred levels for the house brand vs.
the alternatives and this way, it's only slightly degrading the allocation
for the competitor rather than blocking it altogether. Of course, who knows
what's next out of Martin's office for would-be competitors...

Couple of suggested links, fwiw:
I've never used this thing before (anyone?), but it looks interesting:

Might also try:

Perhaps this would be an opportune time to sell him a service of your own
that doesn't suck and is "optimized" ;-) for your network?
Watch out...uh...uh....uh...<rant>

Apparently everything you need to learn about QoS, deploying VoIP, reselling
options and the gear can all be found, touched and tested in newsgroups
online for free. You can also save a lot of time by asking the know-it-alls
that don't attend events anymore. They are by far the best to ask because
there's nothing left for them to learn or teach other people about the same
old rusty technology that never, ever changes in any environment. Besides,
their WISP and VoIP businesses have become way too massive and profitable to
take time away to show others how they did it or give back to the industry
w/o being paid. Don't lose hope though, just be patient with your requests,
you'll get an emailed response at some point and I'm sure you'll have
everything you could possibly require to build end-to-end QoS into that
VoIPwork in no time - and for FREE to boot!
If that weren't the case, I might point you toward a one of those zillions
of pointless, overpriced convention options in the oversaturated event
segment. Ya know the kind where people who are really good at stuff teach
other people how to do stuff better. Those places where people who want to
help each other build a huge, profitable and powerful industry and get
together to try and avoid operating in a small, powerless vacuum for
hobbyists. The kind of place where a know-it-all sits in a room and has his
mind blown by what the guy across the room is doing, makes that peering
agreement or bumps into someone that would love to help fund their expansion
into the next town.

Of course, who'd want to invest a whole $300-$500 in growing their business,
that's serious crazy talk for any company to consider spending. No REAL
entrepreneur ever found a way to grow by investing in their business, their
staff, their industry, their infrastructure, spending time with their peers
or by uncovering new ways to expand beyond just pure unlicensed RF
connections. Besides, with all those annoying sales engineers trying to buy
you dinner, that would get old real fast...Don't try to sell me stuff that
might help me grow or improve the service, I just want you to underwrite
most of the costs for me to learn things, have some free food & drinks and
go away. Can you just spend the time to bring every kind of gear for me to
see and NOT try to convince me to purchase it? Sheesh, the nerve of some
people. How could they possibly try to operate a remotely profitable supply,
service or manufacturing business when no other industry has ever done that.

The best thing for every WISP do is be as cheap as you possibly can on every
aspect of your business. Particularly for any successful outside capital
investment or exit strategy to work, the network has to be pure homebrew.
Stay home and away from other people, don't pay to join and support
associations for your industry unless it's entirely via email for free.
Avoid investing in anything and everything you can't hack together yourself
with duct tape, warez, homebrew bridges and radio shack amps. RF engineering
and running an insanely profitable, carrier-grade WISP can both be mastered
and continuously improved via email for free.
The only real challenge is bootstrapping and doing all this yourself while
growing the rest of the business with an extensive, profitable service
portfolio - ya know, that stuff beyond the connection (like VoIP) that might
make you (more) profitable and keep customers around/happy with your
service. Even more important than making your own equipment or running a
single-product/purpose business is committing to running your business
without a single bean counter, marketing and sales staffer or an install
crew to get in the way. Besides, those people would just create overhead for
the business and increase the email cluequeue backlog thread for the

So let's review:

1) be cheap, cheap, cheap - no matter what it is, just be cheap and haggle
incessantly. If it costs money, it must be bad or some terrible, greedy
company is trying to operate a profitable business (or a successful,
substantially effective association) by creating it and offering it up for
anything other than free.
2) learn everything in newsgroups for free, meatspace is for losers. There's
only one way to learn everything there is to know about operating an
incredibly successful and profitable WISP: free newsgroups with none of that
nasty advertising support

3) build or reverse-engineer everything yourself with the cheapest possible
components. If you really have to buy any gear, buy one so you can spend
time tearing it apart, understand how it works and reverse-engineer your own
version of it

4) if it just works, that doesn't matter - at any cost. Remember, you can
always build a cheaper version of it yourself

5) run everything yourself in-house, never outsource, don't even think about
staffing up unless the wife and kids will do it for free and don't need to
be trained or learn anything outside of what's available in the newsgroups

6) stay home if at all possible unless you have to climb something to fix or
install equipment. Knocking on doors for new business is just like attending
a Chamber of Commerce meeting, meeting with a congressman or going to a
trade show.

7) by all means, never, ever go to a silly trade show or conference and try
to help someone else or even worse, lower yourself to learning from them in
person. Paying someone for that would be the absolute worst thing in the
world and could easily ruin your business overnight.


Ooops, sorry Brian - I hope the first part of this message was somewhat
helpful and perhaps that latter was humorous at worst. Must be Monday or the
over-caffeinated (disclosure:greedy trade show operator) here read a
different thread while responding to ya.
Go ahead Scriv, you can boot me now - I probably deserve it.

cheers jp

-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:54 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] VOIP

I have a sub that says his VOIP goes to crap when I limit upload to 128k.
Does VOIP need more than that?

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